I am not saying it isn't possible, but absent any other evidence if J-Mo says it's likely random noise we mere mortals should probably accept his opinion absent anything to the contrary.
Tracking Aces in Machine Shuffles?
- Thread starter zengrifter
- Start date
I am not saying it isn't possible, but absent any other evidence if J-Mo says it's likely random noise we mere mortals should probably accept his opinion absent anything to the contrary.
zengrifter
Banned
I understand. He was a little too quick to dismiss the many potential
varieties of trackable machines with a one-belief-system fits all viewpoint. zg
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
The answer is:
Kinda.
It depends on the asm. One store has one that has a broken door, so I got to see the deck get shuffled from the top. Wow, it takes a long friggin time to shuffle. It looks like it has three chambers, and the first chamber which gets loaded by the dealer takes a long time to empty to get filled into another chamber. I have played many times at a half full table, and when the deck is done, we are still waiting for the second deck in the asm to finish! I've been tracking aces these past few weeks with no problems. I have not, however, played on some other models. I did see an advertisement for a particular shuffler that looks like tracking wouldn't work on. But I haven't seen in stores yet.
Moral of the story: Always test out the shuffler before placing the big bets.
Kinda.
It depends on the asm. One store has one that has a broken door, so I got to see the deck get shuffled from the top. Wow, it takes a long friggin time to shuffle. It looks like it has three chambers, and the first chamber which gets loaded by the dealer takes a long time to empty to get filled into another chamber. I have played many times at a half full table, and when the deck is done, we are still waiting for the second deck in the asm to finish! I've been tracking aces these past few weeks with no problems. I have not, however, played on some other models. I did see an advertisement for a particular shuffler that looks like tracking wouldn't work on. But I haven't seen in stores yet.
Moral of the story: Always test out the shuffler before placing the big bets.
D
Deleted member 3273
Guest
which type?
JBLACK,
Which type of shuffle machine are you talking about?
JBLACK,
Which type of shuffle machine are you talking about?
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to provide details on a public forum. but just look at the machine, and test out your tracking. Also, from what I can tell on a 6D shufller, the ones with the windows so you can see it shuffle, they work in the same fashion.
zengrifter
Banned
So you are "exploiting random noise" too? zg
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
If you want to believe that, go ahead. I'll just enjoy the money I'm making just from careful observations without the threat of other APs coming into this technique.
The fact is, aces are either trackable or not. If an Ace doesn't follow a key card, then you can't track that particular shuffle. but if it does, then it's a beautiful thing for your BR.
zengrifter
Banned
Thats what I've been saying. zg
I think some are beatable.
The cards are also put into the top of each carrasel position, and each position usually has the same number of cards, which means the cards being put into the machine tend to have the same number of cards infront of them until they re-appear. So cards have a high chance of reoccurring together.
I basically wait for a hand that is high in aces, then I count 260 cards (in a 6 deck game), and they usually come spurting back out. I have now done 4x 8 hour sessions at a CSM and I am up 52 units from I think is about 200 bets. While im infront im just going to keep going, if i fall behind then ill go back to looking at the math :-D
The cards are also put into the top of each carrasel position, and each position usually has the same number of cards, which means the cards being put into the machine tend to have the same number of cards infront of them until they re-appear. So cards have a high chance of reoccurring together.
I basically wait for a hand that is high in aces, then I count 260 cards (in a 6 deck game), and they usually come spurting back out. I have now done 4x 8 hour sessions at a CSM and I am up 52 units from I think is about 200 bets. While im infront im just going to keep going, if i fall behind then ill go back to looking at the math :-D
D
Deleted member 3273
Guest
"basically wait for a hand that is high in aces, then I count 260 cards (in a 6 deck game), and they usually come spurting back out"
What makes it 260 cards for you in order to bet for the aces to come out again. It depends of the number of players and how often the dealer put those cards back in the machine. Sometimes it takes a halve deck for some dealers to return the cards back in the machine..
What makes it 260 cards for you in order to bet for the aces to come out again. It depends of the number of players and how often the dealer put those cards back in the machine. Sometimes it takes a halve deck for some dealers to return the cards back in the machine..
Out of Boredom
You don't make sense. I don't believe anyone but the manufacturer knows how many slots or shelves there are in a CSM and how it operates. Unless you've seen a broken one, worked on, or you made it, you don't know how it operates to make any kind of determination about it. What it is "spitting out" is purely random as it is supposed to be. Give it up. Move on to the higher levels the "experts" other posts on this site purpose. Then, at least, you are only in the variance zone instead of the twilight zone.
You don't make sense. I don't believe anyone but the manufacturer knows how many slots or shelves there are in a CSM and how it operates. Unless you've seen a broken one, worked on, or you made it, you don't know how it operates to make any kind of determination about it. What it is "spitting out" is purely random as it is supposed to be. Give it up. Move on to the higher levels the "experts" other posts on this site purpose. Then, at least, you are only in the variance zone instead of the twilight zone.
fwiw
I have not attempted shuffle tracking yet myself. (haven't had an opportunity, with the ASM....or well have not tryed to see if it can be tracked.)
fwiw...links for a commonly used ASM (in case it sparks thoughts, etc)
(Dead link: http://www.shufflemaster.com/images/ShuffleImages/Products/MD2_LG.jpg)
(edit...b/c i removed the actual link for the Service manual, but says it "No part of this publication may be reproduced or distributed in any form or by any means, without the prior written permission of Shuffle Master, Inc.Shuffle Master"
However if one went to.....google: MD2 shuffle manua l----> wala (pdf)
There is not much there (pg 10) that elaborates too much.
I have not attempted shuffle tracking yet myself. (haven't had an opportunity, with the ASM....or well have not tryed to see if it can be tracked.)
fwiw...links for a commonly used ASM (in case it sparks thoughts, etc)
(Dead link: http://www.shufflemaster.com/images/ShuffleImages/Products/MD2_LG.jpg)
(edit...b/c i removed the actual link for the Service manual, but says it "No part of this publication may be reproduced or distributed in any form or by any means, without the prior written permission of Shuffle Master, Inc.Shuffle Master"
However if one went to.....google: MD2 shuffle manua l----> wala (pdf)
There is not much there (pg 10) that elaborates too much.
zengrifter
Banned
Interesting strategy. Keep posting on it.
And as you have my attention, I'm realizing that 260 cards would, of course, be about 5 dealer reloads.
D
Deleted member 3273
Guest
Sequence aces
"basically wait for a hand that is high in aces, then I count 260 cards (in a 6 deck game), and they usually come spurting back out. I have now done 4x 8 hour sessions at a CSM and I am up 52 units from I think is about 200 bets. While im infront im just going to keep going, if i fall behind then ill go back to looking at the math"
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I am playing 6 deck and and the CSM. Are you saying count 5 decks and than bet the Aces are coming out! What is the theory of counting 260 cards?
"basically wait for a hand that is high in aces, then I count 260 cards (in a 6 deck game), and they usually come spurting back out. I have now done 4x 8 hour sessions at a CSM and I am up 52 units from I think is about 200 bets. While im infront im just going to keep going, if i fall behind then ill go back to looking at the math"
--------
I am playing 6 deck and and the CSM. Are you saying count 5 decks and than bet the Aces are coming out! What is the theory of counting 260 cards?
zengrifter
Banned
Thinking of adding CSM ace-tracking to your Mandino True-Counted Red-7
repertoire, Brother Stork? BTW, are you by chance related to the King Stork? zg