Training eyes for HC'ing

[Dyepaintball12]

What are some good ways to get better at picking off cards while HC'ing? I seem to be having trouble differentiating between K/J and A/2.

I read an article about a professional HC'er who said he "could pick off the HC's that other people wouldn't be able to see even if they were sitting right behind him."

Just wondering if it comes after lots of playing or if there are certain drills I could try.


- Dye

 

[zengrifter]

What are some good ways to get better at picking off cards while HC'ing? I seem to be having trouble differentiating between K/J and A/2.

I read an article about a professional HC'er who said he "could pick off the HC's that other people wouldn't be able to see even if they were sitting right behind him."

The flash can be so fast and slight that knowing the card borders on intuition.
A good custom-fitted pair of glasses can serve two areas - eye-focus + tint to obscure what your eyes are doing. zg

 

[itrack]

For the K/J problem, take out a deck of cards and really study the differences between the two of them. The very top(bottom) of the cards are quite a bit different, and they all follow a typical pattern.

 

[NightStalker]

Training, are you kidding me?

What are some good ways to get better at picking off cards while HC'ing? I seem to be having trouble differentiating between K/J and A/2.

I read an article about a professional HC'er who said he "could pick off the HC's that other people wouldn't be able to see even if they were sitting right behind him."

Just wondering if it comes after lots of playing or if there are certain drills I could try.


- Dye

I've read those articles, but remember everyone likes to think that they are the best
If you can't pick the good read, that game is probably not worth playing. Wait for better game..

 

[Jack_Black]

I read an article about a professional HC'er

where can I find said article?

 

[Sonny]

If you can't pick the good read, that game is probably not worth playing. Wait for better game..

Or bet the minimum and pay for some practice time. And keep in mind that you might not be able to distinguish certain cards based on the information you are getting. In that case you need to decide if the game is still worth your time.

-Sonny-

 

[Ferretnparrot]

I like top pretend im drunk so i can occasionally lay on the table.

I think practicing by looking at cards in your periferal vision may help you to ID them better in your subconsience, since you may not always be looking directly at the card the milisecond it appears.

Those are my thoughts

 

[suicyco maniac]

where can I find said article?

Just guessing here...maybe this one

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/interviewRC.htm

 

[metronome]

The flash can be so fast and slight that knowing the card borders on intuition.
A good custom-fitted pair of glasses can serve two areas - eye-focus + tint to obscure what your eyes are doing. zg

HMMM... Rose-colored tint should suffice

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Just guessing here...maybe this one

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/interviewRC.htm

Thats it!

 

[LovinItAll]

@zg (or others that might be able to answer):

Can you really find HC games in LV now? I don't mean after 200 hours of scouting w/out playing, but within a profitable amount of time, though I guess with a 10%+ advantage, the search can be pretty long and still be worth it. Though new to LV, I've been playing for a very long time. I've caught the occassional HC, but I've never found a truly weak dealer, though I can't say that I was ever looking the way someone actively seeking a HC game might.

To clarify, I'm not being facetious or doubting the existence of HC games.

Best ~ L.I.A.

 

[rrwoods]

Or bet the minimum and pay for some practice time.

This is absolutely invaluable. The best way to get better at HC'ing is to just do it. If you see a questionable flasher... challenge yourself.

 

[iCountNTrack]

What are some good ways to get better at picking off cards while HC'ing? I seem to be having trouble differentiating between K/J and A/2.

I read an article about a professional HC'er who said he "could pick off the HC's that other people wouldn't be able to see even if they were sitting right behind him."

Just wondering if it comes after lots of playing or if there are certain drills I could try.


- Dye

There are strategy tables when you only have partial information about the HC, and it is still very valuable

 

[Mladonna]

What are some good ways to get better at picking off cards while HC'ing? I seem to be having trouble differentiating between K/J and A/2.

I read an article about a professional HC'er who said he "could pick off the HC's that other people wouldn't be able to see even if they were sitting right behind him."

Just wondering if it comes after lots of playing or if there are certain drills I could try.


- Dye

try Phil Hellmuth - Read 'Em and Reap . maybe is all useless but maybe it worth a watch . is all about reading the dealer

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I would really like to see these threads be taken to PMs rather than having multiple HC topics on each page, but I don't feel like I'm giving anything away here.

Just remember, a lot of games are getting burned out by inexperienced players (I'm not claiming to be experienced, mind you), so please don't ruin it for everyone by trying to see cards by sitting ridiculously low, bobbing your head, leaning back in your chair, or other obvious stuff. That's not the big secret to seeing cards, so seriously, stop it.

K-J: As mentioned, look at the top and bottom of the card. See the difference between the crowns/hats? Pay attention to the angle/color.

A/2/3: Again, look at the top and bottom of the cards. Look at the size and position of the pips. The ones accompanying the index are different than the ones in the center, right? How does the top half of a deuce look, compared to an Ace? How about a trey?

 

[Sucker]

I would really like to see these threads be taken to PMs rather than having multiple HC topics on each page, but I don't feel like I'm giving anything away here.

Which is why I'VE stayed out of this thread until now. If someone wants HC or other advanced info I would rather they PM me (and depending upon the question, I STILL might not answer) :grin:.

Just remember, a lot of games are getting burned out by inexperienced players (I'm not claiming to be experienced, mind you), so please don't ruin it for everyone by trying to see cards by sitting ridiculously low, bobbing your head, leaning back in your chair, or other obvious stuff. That's not the big secret to seeing cards, so seriously, stop it.

Great advice. The problem is; it's very rare that you can even talk sense to any of these rookies. They seem to know it all - and to them the experienced player is nothing more than a fool. I once had a 100% game that was in a place where the dealers returned, and in this particular house you could make $5k a couple times a month & still be completely under the radar. Until after about 3 years, when a certain unnamed Asian team discovered it. They locked up the table, with EVERYONE betting the max. On the days that this dealer was on relief, they would lock up ALL THREE tables and chase her around ALL DAY!

I don't have to tell you how much longer THIS game lasted.

 

[pit15]

A lot of holecarding is experience and getting locked in on a certain dealer.

A LOT of it is really getting locked in a certain dealer.

I perform better with tougher games where the dealer is perfectly consistent then with easier games where the dealer is erratic w/ their motions

Games where you can see the card(s) from 2 tables over are nice and easy, but those games result in back offs more often.

Think of it as any other skill. Like when you first start driving you think every action through, then it becomes natural. A holecarder sees a flash of a card and says "well that's a 7" without much thought.

And be careful, amateurs don't realize how costly back-offs can be. I still have amateur mistakes haunting me now that I made when I started last year

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I perform better with tougher games where the dealer is perfectly consistent then with easier games where the dealer is erratic w/ their motions

Games where you can see the card(s) from 2 tables over are nice and easy, but those games result in back offs more often.

This is an important point, and unfortunately, it's these easy games that are more likely to attract unskilled HC players, resulting in more and more heat and more burned games. I'm all for going for the low-hanging fruit, but you need to make sure you've got your act together first. Clean flashes are potential game burners in and of themselves, but clean flashes with absurdly-postured players are even worse.

And be careful, amateurs don't realize how costly back-offs can be. I still have amateur mistakes haunting me now that I made when I started last year

Crucial advice. Take heed!

 

[pit15]

This is an important point, and unfortunately, it's these easy games that are more likely to attract unskilled HC players, resulting in more and more heat and more burned games. I'm all for going for the low-hanging fruit, but you need to make sure you've got your act together first. Clean flashes are potential game burners in and of themselves, but clean flashes with absurdly-postured players are even worse.

Crucial advice. Take heed!

My golden rule is only get as low as I need to in order to get the read.

Getting any lower is probably uncomfortable and attracts attention for no good reason.

Putting your chin on the table when the flasher is readable from 2 tables over is just a dumbass move.

 

[zengrifter]

Can you really find HC games in LV now? I don't mean after 200 hours of scouting w/out playing, but within a profitable amount of time, though I guess with a 10%+ advantage, the search can be pretty long and still be worth it. Though new to LV, I've been playing for a very long time. I've caught the occassional HC, but I've never found a truly weak dealer, though I can't say that I was ever looking the way someone actively seeking a HC game might.

They can be found, but finding them is what separates REAL PROS like Stalker and ExCAA for pro-POSERs, like moi. Get into the habit every time you play pitch to look for the weakness. zg