Unbalanced counts and shoes...

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Brillo

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Are users of unbalanced systems missing out on some opportunities regarding shoe games? It's frustrating to finally hit a positive count only to find the cut card come out several hands later. When playing the shoe from the beginning, is their any rule of thumb on how thick the discard pack should be before you should bail if the count does not start creeping towards 0?
 
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SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Brillo I use an unbalanced count against shoes but I don't know what you mean by missing out on opportunities? As for the cut card coming up just after the count turns positive, yes it does happen. Sometimes you never get a positive count during the shoe, but this also happens with balanced counts as I have used both. Other times the shoe can turn positive early and stay positive for quite a few hands.
As for bailing early with most unbalanced counts you should be gaining +4 for each discarded deck. So after 4 decks played with a starting count of 0, in theory you should be at +16. There is no set rule of thumb but I usually take a bathroom break anytime my count trails by 8 or more of where it is supposed to be.
 
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Brillo

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Take someone...

using hi-lo and someone using KO. Since the balanced-count user is not starting off say a 6-deck shoe at -20 he might be finding opportunities to raise his bet earlier. That's what I meant by missed opportunities.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#5
#5
Brillo said:
Since the balanced-count user is not starting off say a 6-deck shoe at -20 he might be finding opportunities to raise his bet earlier.
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NO... because the ubl'd practitioner is not using a true-count calibration, both approaches get to the money count at the same time. zg
 
W

whom

New Member
#6
#6
Unbalanced

Being a beginner, i see Brillo's point. It seemed most common for me to have a count of a -6 with around 3 decks left using "Red 7" where as if i were using hi-lo it would be a +2 and i would raise my bet a little. Probably unfounded in the long run but but feels like reality to me at with my experience level. :)
 
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callipygian

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
whom said:
It seemed most common for me to have a count of a -6 with around 3 decks left using "Red 7" where as if i were using hi-lo it would be a +2 and i would raise my bet a little.
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You're doing something wrong. +2 is the pivot for the Red 7 system; the true count and running count are by definition equal at +2.

Remember that Red 7 is only unbalanced by 2, so you should be starting your count at -2*decks+2 instead of -4*decks+4 which is used for K-O.
 
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