VBJ machines and taxes, no wonder everyone is playing on the tables instead

[sevencard2003]

i know the tables pay worse odds than the machine because on most tables u cant go back and forth between 1 spot and 3 or more spots, and u dont get paid for a 7 card hand that dont bust like on the machine, and on most tables u cannot surrender like u can on the machine. plus u lose out on a ton of comps and free slot play cashback. but even still heres why most people prefer the tables.

TAXES!!! let me share with u a funny rule they have at slotsoffun in vegas, where the min bet is $1 max bet is $500 each spot, (5 spots total) and the rules are fairly good and they dont shuffle until 2 3rds of a 6 deck shoe, making counting possible but not easy without being able to see when it shuffles. after being stuck quite a bit, and with a good count, i made a final bet win or lose of 2 hands of $335 each. either i was gonna get close to even, or be out a ton of money for the day. i got a 92 on one hand and a A5 on the other hand and the dealer had 6 showing so i had to put more money in the machine to double down both hands. i got a 21 on one hand, and a 19 on the other hand, and the dealer busted. (total bet of $670 on each hand) and immediately the machine locked up for a jackpot, wtf? seems because the amount it paid me was over $1199 i had to wait over 20-30 min for supervisors and attendents to come over, collect my ID, verify it was taxable as i bitterly complained i was stuck most of that and wasnt winning and how $670 of that was my own money.

after talking with the supervisor and her boss, seems like even if id won $670 on one hand, and lost $670 on the other spot, breaking even overall, id still had to file taxes because the one spot that won is treated as a jackpot. wtf? and the machine wouldve still locked up for some time. if id not had my ID i wouldnt even been allowed to get back the money i bet. NO WONDER NO ONE IS PLAYING BIG MONEY ON THESE MACHINES.

is it the same way elsewhere? surely some of u have bet more than that before on the VBJ machines. and won a hand. if i guy bet $1200 a hand hed have a jackpot declared on every hand he won or pushed, and have to file taxes. surely the law cannot be right. and also on a side note (surely u guys are or know of VP professionals) if a guy was at a $5 per hand 100 play VP machine, and he bet $2500 on all hands combined, and only got back $1455 lets say on the $2500 bet, he still would get charged taxes on his $1000+ LOSS on the hand? thats insane but according to the supervisors at circus circus yes he would. no wonder big players like that dont exist or do they? what am i missing?

 

[shadroch]

How could the machine know you were playing two spots, and not two individuals?

 

[Mewtwo]

This all sounds pretty standard. Virtual BJ machines are classified as slots, and as such you get taxed on any payout over $1,199 on a single hand or end result ($300 + double down win, or $200 wager + a split + a double on one of the splits...hell, even a $500 wager, a split, a double down on both where one wins and the other loses only gets you back your initial $2,000 but still had a $2,000 payout and thus you get taxed.)

There are ways to make this work to your advantage, however!

You can mitigate the wins by writing off losses against those wins if you itemize, obviously.

However, certain casinos have promotions that relate to taxable jackpots - one that was run fairly consistently was "Hit a taxable jackpot and get a pull-tab that pays you from between $200 to $5,000 bonus money"; another was "entry into a drawing for a motorcycle with each taxable jackpot". For a player who's betting chunky black and isn't counting cards, it may be to their advantage to play the table and deliberately trigger hand-paid jackpot at every opportunity, as the bonus money for a handpay may tilt the game in the player's favor.

...that, and since the VBJ machines are considered slots, you'd rack up a ****-ton of slot points on your player's cards (obviously you'd be using a card in every spot you were playing) which would bump you up as far as comp dollars and other perks.

 

[sevencard2003]

still would like for a VP or VBJ player whose used to betting $300 or more a hand which causes jackpots to hits often to comment ive certainly never heard of any casino offering a bonus for this, cannot imagine which casino is doing this.

 

[Mewtwo]

It's not currently going on this month, but if it is again I will post and let anyone know who is interested know who and when via PM.

 

[The Chaperone]

The situation was treated appropriately assuming they did not actually withhold any tax. You just send in the paperwork with your taxes at the end of the year and if you lost more than you won for the year, you just include those losses in your filing and you won't pay any taxes.

FWIW, if you bet $145 or $149 (depending on what the machine will allow you to do), you cannot possibly get a jackpot hand (note that on IGT games you usually want to bet only $140 as odd amounts round down for BJ payouts and surrender). If you bet $290, $295, $299 or something of that nature, you will only get a jackpot if you split, double at least one of the hands and win all hands (or push the non-doubled while winning the other). If you wish to avoid the jackpot, you may choose to simply play as if it were an NDAS game. Betting $300 or more is generally inadvisable unless you are trying to trigger jackpots on purpose. Note that with a $480 or greater bet, even a BJ triggers a jackpot.

 

[creeping panther]

Nice

The situation was treated appropriately assuming they did not actually withhold any tax. You just send in the paperwork with your taxes at the end of the year and if you lost more than you won for the year, you just include those losses in your filing and you won't pay any taxes.

FWIW, if you bet $145 or $149 (depending on what the machine will allow you to do), you cannot possibly get a jackpot hand (note that on IGT games you usually want to bet only $140 as odd amounts round down for BJ payouts and surrender). If you bet $290, $295, $299 or something of that nature, you will only get a jackpot if you split, double at least one of the hands and win all hands (or push the non-doubled while winning the other). If you wish to avoid the jackpot, you may choose to simply play as if it were an NDAS game. Betting $300 or more is generally inadvisable unless you are trying to trigger jackpots on purpose. Note that with a $480 or greater bet, even a BJ triggers a jackpot.

The Chaperone really knows his stuff:toast:

CP