Video Poker - Jacks or Better

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Hello all.

I have been doing some research into JoB and have come across a description of certain games as "pull tab" games. Now, I understand these are bad and they tend to appear in Indian casinos. Such as the ones I'm closest to. :sad:

So at the moment I am wondering a few things. 1) How can one recognize a "pull tab" machine and 2) Is it possible to make a living off a 5-6-250 machine? That is to say, a flush pays 5 credits, a full house 6 credits and a royal flush pays 250 credits?

Stanford Wong says in his book Professional Video Poker that the above pay back is 93.76%. From my very limited understanding of this, it doesn't seem feasible to actually make a living playing with such a return. Thus I asked you all number 2 above.

Any and all constructive replies are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[creeping panther]

Bees

9/6 JOB is 99.56, played correctly. Watch for casino promos or cash backs, comp specials, etc to get an edge.

Also "Hot Aces" is another VP game that can be pretty good if you play it right, but it takes alot of strategy deviations.

CP

 

[Guynoire]

For Jacks or Better they always change the payout on the full house and flush to control the payback. 9/6 or 9 for a full house and 6 for a flush is usually considered full pay. A 6/5 machine is a horrible, bottom of the barrel, short pay machine. You can't possibly make money on that machine and should never play it.

Even if you could find a 9/6 machine it won't be positive payback 99.5%. To make money on it you'd have to take advantage of the slot club and probably a promotion. A good slot club payback combined with a multi point promo can turn jacks or better into a positive game. However, given that the casino offers such a horrible game I doubt they'd have a strong enough promo.

You can check to see if there are any good games near you on (Dead link: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/)

Also it may pay 250 for a Royal but at full coin it should pay 800, 4000 for 5 or 8000 for 10. That bonus really makes a difference in terms of expected value and you should always play full coin.

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

9/6 JOB is 99.56, played correctly.

I don't have such a game available to me.

Even if you could find a 9/6 machine it won't be positive payback 99.5%. To make money on it you'd have to take advantage of the slot club and probably a promotion. A good slot club payback combined with a multi point promo can turn jacks or better into a positive game. However, given that the casino offers such a horrible game I doubt they'd have a strong enough promo.

So outside of promos, money is not to be made? That sucks, I really enjoy playing VP. :sad:

Also it may pay 250 for a Royal but at full coin it should pay 800, 4000 for 5 or 8000 for 10. That bonus really makes a difference in terms of expected value and you should always play full coin.

Yes, maximum credits is 20 and a royal flush pays 16,000 credits. I'm not a high enough roller to play five bucks a hand though, favorable payout or not.

I'm sad now.

 

[Guynoire]

So outside of promos, money is not to be made? That sucks, I really enjoy playing VP. :sad: I'm sad now.

There are some games that pay over 100% payback like full pay deuces wild 100.7%. I've never seen a game that you can make more than $10 bucks an hour without exploiting cashback though.

 

[moo321]

Doesn't sound like you're going to be able to make a living off of video poker. Remember, we make most of our money by not playing bad games...

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Story of my life. I find a great interest in this sort of stuff, but am stifled by my location's propensity to have little to no options for good games.

*sigh*

One other thing, how can some spot a "pull tab" video poker machine? Ya know, without having to put in a hundred bucks and realize that you're not doing any amount of winning.

 

[actuary]

Story of my life. I find a great interest in this sort of stuff, but am stifled by my location's propensity to have little to no options for good games.

*sigh*

One other thing, how can some spot a "pull tab" video poker machine? Ya know, without having to put in a hundred bucks and realize that you're not doing any amount of winning.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing a pull tab and got a "pat" hand on the deal, say a flush, if you toss all the cards, you will be dealt another flush.

If I wanted to know if I was playing a pull tab, I'd test the above by playing one coin at the lowest denomination and waiting until you got a straight or a flush on the deal (or even three of a kind should work,) and see what happens when you toss all 5 cards.

 

[shadroch]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing a pull tab and got a "pat" hand on the deal, say a flush, if you toss all the cards, you will be dealt another flush.

If I wanted to know if I was playing a pull tab, I'd test the above by playing one coin at the lowest denomination and waiting until you got a straight or a flush on the deal (or even three of a kind should work,) and see what happens when you toss all 5 cards.

You could do that, or you could simply inquire about the types of machines in the casino you are looking to play in.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Video Lottery Terminals

Hello all.

I have been doing some research into JoB and have come across a description of certain games as "pull tab" games. Now, I understand these are bad and they tend to appear in Indian casinos. Such as the ones I'm closest to. :sad:...

They're called "video lottery terminals." They are often found in the racetracks that have been converted to casinos and other small gaming establishments in places where lottery is legal but not casino gaming. I believe they have to have a label on them that identifies them as VLT's.

They are bad (and dishonest) because you are not actually playing the game. The outcome is predetermined as soon as you put your coin in regardless of how you play your hand, and the machine is programmed to pay back a certain percentage (usually quite low) randomly, just like pull tabs or lottery.

Here's a question for anyone who is an expert on VLT's: I understand your payout is determined as soon as your coin-in. So if you are dealt a pat hand, let's say a heart flush, and you discard a heart it will simply deal you another heart to give you the proper payout.

Now let's say you are dealt a pat straight flush, king to 9. And you discard the 9. What now? Or if you are dealt quads and discard one? There's no way it can refill your hand.

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

They're called "video lottery terminals." They are often found in the racetracks that have been converted to casinos and other small gaming establishments in places where lottery is legal but not casino gaming.

Crap, that's exactly the type of place I have near me. A "racetrack and casino" as they call it.

I believe they have to have a label on them that identifies them as VLT's.

inquire about the types of machines in the casino you are looking to play in.

I'll be checking the machine and asking around next time I'm in the establishment.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing a pull tab and got a "pat" hand on the deal, say a flush, if you toss all the cards, you will be dealt another flush.

If I wanted to know if I was playing a pull tab, I'd test the above by playing one coin at the lowest denomination and waiting until you got a straight or a flush on the deal (or even three of a kind should work,) and see what happens when you toss all 5 cards.

This sounds like a fun thing to try just to see the machine redeal me a pat hand. Just once of course.

I too would like to know what Automatic Monkey is asking, so please don't hesitate to speak up.

Thanks all.

 

[pieinthesky]

VLT video poker

If you're talking about racinos in NY, here's the scoop, courtesy of Albany Law School:
http://www.albanylaw.edu/media/user/glc/vlt_video_poker.pdf

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Okay, did some experimenting tonight.

I talked to the "technician" and he didn't seem to fully grasp what my inquiry was: If the machine decided if I was going to win or lose before I even decided to hold any card. Or in other words, if it was a "video lottery terminal". I don't think English was his first language. So he wasn't much help.

So if you want something done, gotta do it yourself. Here's what I observed:

Played on the shitty 6-5-250 machines, that I am suspicious of being VLT/Pull Tab machines.

On two hands, I was dealt two pair. Held zero cards on both hands and redrew. The redraw gave me a nonpaying hand.

On one hand, I was dealt a flush. Held zero cards and the redraw dealt me a nonpaying hand.

On four occasions, I had four to an outside straight, holding the four. But on the redraw, the fifth card was the same card that I shipped back, just in a different suit. Very possible I know, but also very unlikely. Nevermind happening four times. Probably doesn't have anything to do with being a VLT, if the machine is in fact.

So verdict? I say nonVLT and just a normal, shitty payback JoB.

 

[Guynoire]

Sounds to me like they're just really bad JOB also. Holding 4 to a straight and getting a card of the same rank but different suit happens all the time in video poker, the probability is 3/47 not that big of a long shot.

Here's something to consider; Your casino might have better games than 6/5 JOB. As a general rule of thumb the better the game the worse the location in the casino. All the good games I've found were tucked away in a back corner or something, and it's very common for a casino to have 2 versions of the same game with different payback even for the same bet level. This rule of thumb also works with slots but it's impossible to tell their payback unless advertised.

 

[actuary]

I agree with Guynoire, its just a regular vp machine, not a pull tab. I wouldn't play it either. Check to see what other games they have, maybe they have a full pay pick-em poker (99.95%) or something like that.

 

[Billy C1]

Proggressive Jackpots

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned progressive jackpots here (if you're not familiar, it means that the payout for royals keeps increasing until hit).
If that progressive amount is high enough it can theoretically make any VP game into a plus EV situation.
For example, that 9-6 game becomes playable at very little over the the "flat top" amount if you are fortunate enough to find it on progressive machines.

Billy C1

 

[moo321]

okay, did some experimenting tonight.

I talked to the "technician" and he didn't seem to fully grasp what my inquiry was: If the machine decided if i was going to win or lose before i even decided to hold any card. Or in other words, if it was a "video lottery terminal". I don't think english was his first language. So he wasn't much help.

So if you want something done, gotta do it yourself. Here's what i observed:

Played on the shitty 6-5-250 machines, that i am suspicious of being vlt/pull tab machines.

On two hands, i was dealt two pair. Held zero cards on both hands and redrew. The redraw gave me a nonpaying hand.

On one hand, i was dealt a flush. Held zero cards and the redraw dealt me a nonpaying hand.

On four occasions, i had four to an outside straight, holding the four. But on the redraw, the fifth card was the same card that i shipped back, just in a different suit. Very possible i know, but also very unlikely. Nevermind happening four times. Probably doesn't have anything to do with being a vlt, if the machine is in fact.

So verdict? I say nonvlt and just a normal, shitty payback job.

don't play shitty games!

 

[Billy C1]

And

Please understand that I'm not familiar with the VLT and/or pull tab deals. My last post here would have been interjected earlier if I had seen the thread before now.
It pertains to "regular" video poker.

Billy C1

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Sounds to me like they're just really bad JOB also. Holding 4 to a straight and getting a card of the same rank but different suit happens all the time in video poker, the probability is 3/47 not that big of a long shot.

Yeah I should have stopped to think about the odds. Not very surprising when you get the reality of the situation in.

Here's something to consider; Your casino might have better games than 6/5 JOB. As a general rule of thumb the better the game the worse the location in the casino. All the good games I've found were tucked away in a back corner or something, and it's very common for a casino to have 2 versions of the same game with different payback even for the same bet level. This rule of thumb also works with slots but it's impossible to tell their payback unless advertised.

I agree with Guynoire, its just a regular vp machine, not a pull tab. I wouldn't play it either. Check to see what other games they have, maybe they have a full pay pick-em poker (99.95%) or something like that.

There are VP machines in the "high limit" section, despite still being $0.25 machines. And boy are those tucked away. The technician also mentioned they got some new VP machines in and if those were the ones I was asking about. I didn't even know they were poker machines, I just thought they were some penny slots. I'll hafta check those out also.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned progressive jackpots here (if you're not familiar, it means that the payout for royals keeps increasing until hit).
If that progressive amount is high enough it can theoretically make any VP game into a plus EV situation.
For example, that 9-6 game becomes playable at very little over the the "flat top" amount if you are fortunate enough to find it on progressive machines.

I think no one mentioned progressives because I already knew the machines I have access to are not progressives. Like I said though, they got some new machines in that I didn't even know were VP, so I'll hafta check 'em out.

don't play shitty games!

Shall I go sit in the corner? Will I at least get dessert tonight?

Please understand that I'm not familiar with the VLT and/or pull tab deals. My last post here would have been interjected earlier if I had seen the thread before now.

Not a problem. Constructive input is always welcome.

*eyeballs moo321*

 

[Covered_in_Bees!]

Another field report.

The "new" machines I mentioned last post were not VLTs as far as I could tell. The pay scale was still quite bad, but it had a twist. This twist I am here to inquire about its potential advantageousness.

It paid different amounts for differeent kinds of fours-of-a-kind.

Four aces: 80 credits (more than a straight flush btw)
Four 2s, 3s or 4s: 50 credits
Four 5s-Ks: 25 credits

So four out of 13 possible fours-of-a-kind pay greater than a standard FoaK (25 credits). How does this impact the payback percentage? Considering the rest of the pay scale is a 250-6-5 machine. Is it enough to tip the scale in favor of at least making some decent money off of?