What are the effects of a backoff on an MGM/Mirage Players' Club Account?

[Cherry7Up]

If a player is backed off from blackjack at an MGM/Mirage property in Las Vegas while using a players' club card, is that account essentially useless at all MGM/Mirage properties for blackjack purposes? Are the negative effects limited only to the individual property where the backoff occurred?

I was told that my play had been evaluated and that I am no longer welcome to play blackjack at the particular property. I assume this must now be noted on the players' club account that I was using at the time.

1) Can I still play blackjack on this card at other MGM properties? At the same property? I assume not, but would appreciate any advice on this.

2) I am still receiving some room offers linked to this account. Could I book them via a host and ask the host to find out if I could be allowed to play blackjack? Obviously I could use the offer and then just not play blackjack or not play rated, but I assume that would mean no future offers.

3) What are the consequences of playing blackjack after being backed off? I want to make sure that I do not get trespassed from any (or all) MGM properties--what must a player do to trigger this severe penalty? If I play again and try to use the flagged players' club, I assume I would just be backed off again, but could this trigger a trespass? If I play at an MGM property unrated and am recognized as someone previously backed off, could this trigger a trespass?

Thank you in advance for any and all advice about how best to milk comp rewards out of this players' club account now that it is associated with card counting behavior.

 

[KenSmith]

I will answer only the first of your queries and leave the rest to those who may have recent information that is more valuable than mine would be.

Trouble with your MGM players account will extend to all their properties. Unlike many of their competitors, negative comments and information on your card are system-wide.

 

[kewljason]

Still receiving offers linked to this account just goes to show that like the government, the different departments in the casino don't pay attention to what the other is doing. You didn't mention if you have any other play on this account. Do you or a spouse or significant other play video poker or slots using this card? If you do, the offers will almost assuredly keep flowing.

This is the precise reason why I like to establish a "home base" in each locale. And not a chain casino. I reduce my spread at the home base casino and maybe play a bit of full pay VP, ect. Then I go next door or across the street or across town and play unrated and spread bigger.

I have never been trespassed at a property but I would think from the casino point of view if you have been backed off a couple times, which were documented on your card and that doesn't stop you that it might be time to step it up a notch. Just guessing though. Casino thinking sometimes amazes me. lol

 

[moo321]

This is the precise reason why I like to establish a "home base" in each locale. And not a chain casino. I reduce my spread at the home base casino and maybe play a bit of full pay VP, ect. Then I go next door or across the street or across town and play unrated and spread bigger.

Good advice.

 

[Cherry7Up]

Am I correct then that the best move following a rated backoff is to use the room offers (at least while they continue), but to play only unrated blackjack at MGM properties (or to play rated under a different account)?

 

[SystemsTrader]

The room offers won't work anymore. While you are still receiving offers unfortunately when you go to claim it they will ask for your players card number. Then you will be told that the offer is no longer available.

 

[chichow]

When your card is swiped, there will be a flashing red area where comments about the player is noted.

 

[FLASH1296]

You are officially "persona non grata" at M.G.M. properties nation-wide.

If you play without a card and they "pull you up" and are able to match your photo - you may very well be trespassed; especially if you had bet more than "light green."

 

[Cherry7Up]

The room offers won't work anymore. While you are still receiving offers unfortunately when you go to claim it they will ask for your players card number. Then you will be told that the offer is no longer available.

Wow, I was worried this would be the case, but I was abe to redeem a free night offer at a separate MGM property shortly after the backoff--perhaps the slight delay in entering the information into the system made all the difference?

 

[Cherry7Up]

You are officially "persona non grata" at M.G.M. properties nation-wide.

If you play without a card and they "pull you up" and are able to match your photo - you may very well be trespassed; especially if you had bet more than "light green."

So if avoiding trespass is a priority for me, I should either play very cautiously or with a disguise? Perhaps my days of recreational card counting at MGM properties have simply come to an end.

 

[runningaces]

I was backed off at Mirage and had no trouble playing unrated at some of their other stores. I did cut back on session time a bit. I still have no trouble playing at MGM properties minus Mirage. They know me too well there, so I don't want to push it too far to ruin it for the other properties.

Another thing, before I learned to count, I played alot of craps and my host called me to see when I would be coming back out ( this was shortly after my backoff) I mentioned to the host to look on the computer to see if she could see anything and she mentioned that yes it showed a backoff from BJ. I got a longer leash due to the fact I get rated high on craps. But just a little tidbit foryou to know with your hosts.

I've since learned controlled shooting in craps, and don't play a whole lot of BJ anymore so when I do I really spread large.

 

[nottooshabby]

The room offers won't work anymore. While you are still receiving offers unfortunately when you go to claim it they will ask for your players card number. Then you will be told that the offer is no longer available.

I don't know about this, ST. One of the guys I play with was backed off (not trespassed) on the Strip nearly a year ago, yet the room offers keep rolling in (both in Vegas and other MGM properties around the nation). He has had no issues with getting rooms comped as recently as three weeks ago, and has been able to play unrated at other properties without a problem.

 

[21forme]

Marketing and gaming computers often don't talk to each other. I had an AC back-off at Borgata several years ago. Next time, just to see what would happen, I used my card and was immediately half-shoed. Room offers continued for a whole year and I took advantage of them almost weekly.

 

[FLASH1296]

Running Aces,

Once upon a time (last year) I still believed that casinos would cut you (at least some) slack.
If you played some Craps, or Baccarat or Video Poker.

The 2nd most abrupt, quick, and rude (eviction and) trespassing that I have ever experienced,
in Las Vegas, was preceded by the biggest loss of my life - at Craps.

 

[SystemsTrader]

I don't know about this, ST. One of the guys I play with was backed off (not trespassed) on the Strip nearly a year ago, yet the room offers keep rolling in (both in Vegas and other MGM properties around the nation). He has had no issues with getting rooms comped as recently as three weeks ago, and has been able to play unrated at other properties without a problem.

I was just relating my own experience, if others are still getting rooms then good for them.

 

[FLASH1296]

I continue to receive invitations from casinos that "backed me off" in the 1980's !

I also receive them from all three (3) casinos that "trespassed" me.

Casinos rarely, if ever, delete a name from their patron database.

If you accept a comp from a place that does not want you playing BJ they have the right to cancel the comps and bill you for room, food, etc.

If you accept the comp and "stiff them" - meaning that you do not play BJ, (or even Video Poker), you will usually get away with it.

Casinos eventually catch up with you, (and reduce your status as a walking A.T.M. machine to that of just an undesirable "stiff"),

if you take advantage of them more than once or twice or thrice.

Otherwise, you will continue to receive "offers" until you are long dead and buried.

 

[kewljason]

I continue to receive invitations from casinos that "backed me off" in the 1980's !

I also receive them from all three (3) casinos that "trespassed" me.

Casinos rarely, if ever, delete a name from their patron database.

If you accept a comp from a place that does not want you playing BJ they have the right to cancel the comps and bill you for room, food, etc.

If you accept the comp and "stiff them" - meaning that you do not play BJ, (or even Video Poker), you will usually get away with it.

Casinos eventually catch up with you, (and reduce your status as a walking A.T.M. machine to that of just an undesirable "stiff"),

if you take advantage of them more than once or twice or thrice.

Otherwise, you will continue to receive "offers" until you are long dead and buried.

I am by no means a legal expert, but I wonder what would happen in the case that a casino trespasses you, telling you that you are no longer welcome on their property, but then sends you an invitation to visit them. I would think from a legal standpoint that an invitation after the trespass, null and viods the trespass. Of course finding a court (especially in Nevada), to side with you may take several steps up the legal ladder. would like to hear from you legal experts.

 

[FLASH1296]

It would cost you considerable time and money to litigate such a matter.

The casino will only very rarely have someone arrested after they have been trespassed. Perhaps after the 3rd or 4th incident.

BUT they have the wherewithal and justification to ruin your day and have you thoroughly regret having returned to their property as they waste precious hours of your time, as they will claim the right to detain you, whilst they (supposedly) "look into the matter"

Casinos do not want bad publicity, they only want to dissuade you from occupying the seat of a certified sucker.

Get it ? I hope so.

 

[FLASH1296]

The Nevada courts traditionally rule in favor of the patron vs. the casino.

The juries find themselves identifying with and empathizing with the patron.

 

[runningaces]

Running Aces,

Once upon a time (last year) I still believed that casinos would cut you (at least some) slack.
If you played some Craps, or Baccarat or Video Poker.

The 2nd most abrupt, quick, and rude (eviction and) trespassing that I have ever experienced,
in Las Vegas, was preceded by the biggest loss of my life - at Craps.

Believe me there were nights I just got murdered at craps, why do you think the Mirage employee called me to ask when my next trip was? This is why I loved CC at 1st, I wasn't getting killed and in fact I won quite a bit out of the gate. I have always been good with math and memory and have known basic strategy forever.

But I abused CC, I did too many trips to Vegas in too short of a time, I let the heat wear on me that I drew to myself. I wanted to puke everytime I heard "checks play". I do have some local Indian casinos I can spread from $5-$100 3 spots with absolutely no heat so I still do some smaller CC, I just haven't done it with a real passion in Vegas for awhile.

I did find this site as a huge benefit when I was CC in vegas, I learned stuff you cant read in a book, I was able to avoid certain stores that offer inferior games and warned about other stores that sweat action.

Controlled shooting in craps does work, it's no lock just like CC, but it does take a physical ability to do it so alot of people that say it doesn't work most likely do not possess the ability do it phsically themselves. And don't get me wrong, I have no plans of quitting my day job.

Best of luck.