From the little I've read on this man, he seems to be a controversial figure in the world of blackjack, an innovator and a con-man all wrapped up in one. But as far as paving the way for the present-day AP player, where exactly does he rank? Is he one of if not the most important thinker in the genre of advantage play? Come to think of it, I don't even know what he looked like? Can anyone post a link to a photo?
What is Revere's legacy?
- Thread starter Brillo
- Start date
In my memory he was a scraggly old coot. But I visited him 30 years ago and my memory is not that keen
He certainly worked both sides of the table. But so have many in the field and the experience gained is of value. He is known for true counting, team play and for his many systems. But I learned camouflage from him. He was also known as conning both sides of the table. But as long as you know a snake is a snake; you can still learn invaluable lessons.
He certainly worked both sides of the table. But so have many in the field and the experience gained is of value. He is known for true counting, team play and for his many systems. But I learned camouflage from him. He was also known as conning both sides of the table. But as long as you know a snake is a snake; you can still learn invaluable lessons.
My Revere Comments
My Revere origins described below. Qfit's description is accurate. Revere died of throat cancer in '78. zg
EXCERPTED FROM ZENGRIFTER INTERVIEW -
In chronological order, what are the major count systems you’ve used through your playing career? How would you rate them, and why did you change from one to another?
I was personally taught by Lawrence Revere and at his recommendation, in 1975, I switched from the Revere Point Count to the Revere Advanced Plus/Minus, an ace-neutral level one (2-6 vs. 9-10 with 125 indices). When I switched to HiOpt-2 in 1976, Revere stopped speaking to me. He ultimately refused further mentoring and dealings with me after I informed him that I was opting for the HiOpt-2 in lieu of his Advanced Point Count. By then, Julian Braun's first ever simulation-comparison of several ‘70s systems had been published - I got a copy in late 1975 at the Gamblers’ Book Club - It clearly showed that the simpler HiOpt-2 out-performed Revere's latest advanced ‘level-4' system. For several years I played HiOpt-2 with ‘multi-parameter’ adjustments for aces and sevens. At least 100 indices were considered critical in the ‘70s, however I went a bit overboard, using 160 or more back then. Since the mid-80s, upon the first publication of Arnold Snyder’s Blackbelt in Blackjack, I've played Zen with 90 indices. And, if I knew in the ‘70s what I know now, I'd likely never have switched away from the RPC, as published in Revere's then-popular book.
After playing blackjack using Revere’s methods, what were your results?
How did you feel about the effectiveness of his teachings?
What was Lawrence Revere like?
Revere was a paradox: undoubtedly a pioneer, he had the ethics of the rogue that he was. I am convinced that Revere understood more about the Kelly/risk-management side of the game then he revealed in his own published "money-management" advice. In effect, he purposely had us all over-betting. Often our win rate would approximate the 8-10 units per hour that we were led to expect, only to inevitably hit an "inexplicable losing streak" that would all but collapse our insufficient bankrolls.
Of course we were grossly over-betting, but when we’d limp back to Revere’s place on Rexford Drive, the money management issue never entered the analysis… instead he would "check" our play by dealing cards. Getting down to the last few cards, our count would always be wrong - which invariably led to the purchase of more lessons at $100 per hour, and up to several system upgrades: the complete RPC with 160 indices, the Advanced Plus Minus with ace side count, four different versions of his Advanced Point Count at $200 each.
As you may have guessed, our count was always off during the "checking" sessions because Revere was dealing to us from a shorted deck.
To his credit, he was the true inventor of the ‘Big Player’ team approach that was borrowed and improved upon by Al Francesco, popularized by Ken Uston, and further perfected by the MIT Team, and others. Barred universally in Nevada, he would make frequent casino trips abroad with his all-girl team of apparent "nieces" and "daughters."
One gal that I knew in passing worked for 6 months as his business assistant during the mid- 70s and noted that he averaged about $3000 weekly in mail-order and lessons sales alone. To this day his daughter-in-law, Mary, continues to sell systems - and dispense wholly inadequate advice - from the very same residential location that I used to meet her father at.
- END EXCERPT -
My Revere origins described below. Qfit's description is accurate. Revere died of throat cancer in '78. zg
EXCERPTED FROM ZENGRIFTER INTERVIEW -
In chronological order, what are the major count systems you’ve used through your playing career? How would you rate them, and why did you change from one to another?
I was personally taught by Lawrence Revere and at his recommendation, in 1975, I switched from the Revere Point Count to the Revere Advanced Plus/Minus, an ace-neutral level one (2-6 vs. 9-10 with 125 indices). When I switched to HiOpt-2 in 1976, Revere stopped speaking to me. He ultimately refused further mentoring and dealings with me after I informed him that I was opting for the HiOpt-2 in lieu of his Advanced Point Count. By then, Julian Braun's first ever simulation-comparison of several ‘70s systems had been published - I got a copy in late 1975 at the Gamblers’ Book Club - It clearly showed that the simpler HiOpt-2 out-performed Revere's latest advanced ‘level-4' system. For several years I played HiOpt-2 with ‘multi-parameter’ adjustments for aces and sevens. At least 100 indices were considered critical in the ‘70s, however I went a bit overboard, using 160 or more back then. Since the mid-80s, upon the first publication of Arnold Snyder’s Blackbelt in Blackjack, I've played Zen with 90 indices. And, if I knew in the ‘70s what I know now, I'd likely never have switched away from the RPC, as published in Revere's then-popular book.
After playing blackjack using Revere’s methods, what were your results?
How did you feel about the effectiveness of his teachings?
What was Lawrence Revere like?
Revere was a paradox: undoubtedly a pioneer, he had the ethics of the rogue that he was. I am convinced that Revere understood more about the Kelly/risk-management side of the game then he revealed in his own published "money-management" advice. In effect, he purposely had us all over-betting. Often our win rate would approximate the 8-10 units per hour that we were led to expect, only to inevitably hit an "inexplicable losing streak" that would all but collapse our insufficient bankrolls.
Of course we were grossly over-betting, but when we’d limp back to Revere’s place on Rexford Drive, the money management issue never entered the analysis… instead he would "check" our play by dealing cards. Getting down to the last few cards, our count would always be wrong - which invariably led to the purchase of more lessons at $100 per hour, and up to several system upgrades: the complete RPC with 160 indices, the Advanced Plus Minus with ace side count, four different versions of his Advanced Point Count at $200 each.
As you may have guessed, our count was always off during the "checking" sessions because Revere was dealing to us from a shorted deck.
To his credit, he was the true inventor of the ‘Big Player’ team approach that was borrowed and improved upon by Al Francesco, popularized by Ken Uston, and further perfected by the MIT Team, and others. Barred universally in Nevada, he would make frequent casino trips abroad with his all-girl team of apparent "nieces" and "daughters."
One gal that I knew in passing worked for 6 months as his business assistant during the mid- 70s and noted that he averaged about $3000 weekly in mail-order and lessons sales alone. To this day his daughter-in-law, Mary, continues to sell systems - and dispense wholly inadequate advice - from the very same residential location that I used to meet her father at.
- END EXCERPT -