What should I have done?

[Bondy3]

Today I was playing blackjack at the local casino Ive been going to for about 2 weeks, (about 25 hours of total play there in the 2 weeks I have been going there, and I have a players card) I don't Wong out unless i'm playing at a $25 table, I play for hours at the same table (generally $10 table though), I tip the dealers and I have had conversations with several of the pit boss people on different occasions asking all sorts of various questions involving rules and the games and stuff. I generally don't spread very much, (I spread my bets from 10, 2x20, 2x30, 2x40, 2x50 @ tc=0,1,2,3,4)

Today when I was playing I had been playing at a table for about 20 minutes and I kept going back and forth between $10 and 2x$20, I raised to 2x$40 for a hand and then there were like 10 or so face cards that came up and the TC went back to like .8 so I lowered my bet to $10 and the dealer said to me "whats the mater? you don't like the count?" then he said "if you think counting and playing is hard, you should try counting and dealing"

He didn't tell me to leave so I just kept playing and spreading my bets just like I normally would for a while, the pit boss came over and was watching me play very obviously. But since he didn't ask me to leave I just kept playing, I intentionally made some basic strategy errors while he was watching me because I thought he would think I was some dumbass who just saw the movie 21 and thinks he can count but sucks at it. I played for like 5 hours in total after the dealer had made that comment to me, and then I realized I was tired and I cashed out. (450$ in profit)

My question is, What should I have done when the dealer made that comment to me, or when the pit boss came and started staring at me while I was playing? Has anyone else had a similar experience where you are called out for counting but the casino doesn't seem to care?

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Tricky situation, some dealers just count for the sport of it and won't necessarily narc you out, especially if you're tipping.

Some however will snitch on you to their superiors.

I think they are just warning you they don't like your 1-10 spread. You didn't mention how many decks there are, if it is less than six you might tone your spread down since this is a local joint and longevity matters.

However the argument can also be made that you're already pegged, and you might as well pull out all the stops and engage them until you're asked to stop playing.

I may be giving bad advice but the last thing you'd want to do is leave immediately as that may confirm the pit's suspicions. However, you don't want to camp out there either, certainly not. You could tell the pit you're hungry and ask for a food comp.

To this date I have stayed under the radar with good success (except when I played sweaty DT vegas shops) so I am probably not the best person to advise you.

 

[elias001]

what if one gradually increases from a 1 to 10 spread. So you do it from 1 to 5 in one shoe, at the end of one shoe you are at 5 times your betting units, so for the next shoe, you increase it from 5 to 10 betting units, and you varies between 5 to 10. Would you get noticed in such situation??

 

[creeping panther]

Bondy

Today I was playing blackjack at the local casino Ive been going to for about 2 weeks, (about 25 hours of total play there in the 2 weeks I have been going there, and I have a players card) I don't Wong out unless i'm playing at a $25 table, I play for hours at the same table (generally $10 table though), I tip the dealers and I have had conversations with several of the pit boss people on different occasions asking all sorts of various questions involving rules and the games and stuff. I generally don't spread very much, (I spread my bets from 10, 2x20, 2x30, 2x40, 2x50 @ tc=0,1,2,3,4)

Today when I was playing I had been playing at a table for about 20 minutes and I kept going back and forth between $10 and 2x$20, I raised to 2x$40 for a hand and then there were like 10 or so face cards that came up and the TC went back to like .8 so I lowered my bet to $10 and the dealer said to me "whats the mater? you don't like the count?" then he said "if you think counting and playing is hard, you should try counting and dealing"

He didn't tell me to leave so I just kept playing and spreading my bets just like I normally would for a while, the pit boss came over and was watching me play very obviously. But since he didn't ask me to leave I just kept playing, I intentionally made some basic strategy errors while he was watching me because I thought he would think I was some dumbass who just saw the movie 21 and thinks he can count but sucks at it. I played for like 5 hours in total after the dealer had made that comment to me, and then I realized I was tired and I cashed out. (450$ in profit)

My question is, What should I have done when the dealer made that comment to me, or when the pit boss came and started staring at me while I was playing? Has anyone else had a similar experience where you are called out for counting but the casino doesn't seem to care?

Bondy,

You should have read a few posts I have made about betting cover!

That dealer is now expecting tips to keep quiet, although he is probably full of sh@#.

As to your back off, I doubt it but not knowing what region you play in that is hard to say.

Be happy with the SMALL WINS, don't get greedy if this is your home casino.

At the $10 table wong out more in the neg. Bathroom breaks etc.

CP

 

[21forme]

Sounds like the dealer was toke hustling. However, don't admit anything to him. Always play dumb.

Two options:
1. Put a small toke out for him when the count is high.
2. Avoid him and play at another table.

It's never good to camp out at one table, even at small stakes.

 

[FLASH1296]

As expected, from 21ForMe, his advice is perfectly spot-on. All three points made.

If you are winning money and not toking, (frequent but very small amounts);

in the opinion of every dealer that I have been acquainted with, you deserve to be "ratted out"

You are shooting yourself in the foot by being a cheapskate.

 

[duanedibley]

I spread my bets from 10, 2x20, 2x30, 2x40, 2x50 @ tc=0,1,2,3,4

You should not be betting 40% of your max at TC=+1! Your standard deviation will go through roof (relative to your win rate) if you continue with this strategy!

 

[creeping panther]

Duane

You should not be betting 40% of your max at TC=+1! Your standard deviation will go through roof (relative to your win rate) if you continue with this strategy!

That would depend on the game...

CP

 

[Meistro]

Since you are betting so little they would have to be pretty paranoid to back you off.

 

[Diver]

is this obvious?

. . . I kept going back and forth between $10 and 2x$20, I raised to 2x$40 for a hand and then there were like 10 or so face cards that came up and the TC went back to like .8 so I lowered my bet to $10. . . .

A dealer might simply infer the count changed from watching your bet even if they weren't counting. From your account, it appears you changed from 2 x 4 units to 1 unit which would seem to stand out on its own, depending on how you increased and decreased your bet the rest of the time.

 

[creeping panther]

Really

Since you are betting so little they would have to be pretty paranoid to back you off.

If he can average $450 wins on a large majority of visits, betting so little as you say, they would not have to be that paronoid.

CP

 

[Blue Efficacy]

If you're accused of counting by a dealer, I think a good strategy would be to look confused. Give them a look that says, "what the hell are you talking about?"

But this dealer was obviously counting along with you, so might be tougher to fool him.

 

[Deathclutch]

What should you have done? The obvious and correct answer is don't be a headstone and you won't be in that situation in the first place.

 

[duanedibley]

That would depend on the game...

CP

Well I can't think of a game in which you can spread 1-10 where betting 4 units at +1 is anywhere close to optimal, and I think it is very unlikely that OP is playing one that fits this profile

 

[creeping panther]

Duane

Well I can't think of a game in which you can spread 1-10 where betting 4 units at +1 is anywhere close to optimal, and I think it is very unlikely that OP is playing one that fits this profile

If he were playing a 6d with a .18he,,,no problem.

CP

 

[duanedibley]

If he were playing a 6d with a .18he,,,no problem.

CP

OK I already feel like I've derailed this thread enough - but this would not be a good example of when to bet 40% of your max at +1. Your edge would be around 0.3% at this count, and this kind of spread would be nowhere near Kelly.

OP, maybe you can give us the rules and pen. of the game you are playing so we can give you some less speculative advice

Until then I will try to answer your original question: Yes I have been "called out" for counting a number of times, but only a few of those times did I feel the need to get up that instant and walk away. You will get a feel for when you are close to being backed off vs. when they don't really care. If it's just the dealer heckling you, and he shows no intentions of calling a floor man over then you are fine.

 

[UK-21]

Playing in the UK, TC+1 in our six deck games doesn't even give a pos EV. I think you hit the neutral point at something around 1.5. Even at TC+2, I'm not sure of the prudence of betting 40% of your spread max at such a marginal advantage??

 

[Bondy3]

Sorry I didnt reply for a long time, I have been busy,

I was playing 6D H17 DOA,

and I was tipping him.

I dont know how much im supposed to tip though

 

[FreeStyle]

Were there other patrons at the table when the dealer said that to you?

 

[creeping panther]

duane

OK I already feel like I've derailed this thread enough - but this would not be a good example of when to bet 40% of your max at +1. Your edge would be around 0.3% at this count, and this kind of spread would be nowhere near Kelly.

OP, maybe you can give us the rules and pen. of the game you are playing so we can give you some less speculative advice

Until then I will try to answer your original question: Yes I have been "called out" for counting a number of times, but only a few of those times did I feel the need to get up that instant and walk away. You will get a feel for when you are close to being backed off vs. when they don't really care. If it's just the dealer heckling you, and he shows no intentions of calling a floor man over then you are fine.

Since he is going to 2 spots, playing at a sleight advantage, let us say a .18 game, and not spreading a large spread, making his first move at +1 is a ok move for several reasons. First off when spreading to 2 he most likely must double table min, there are other reasons,,,and I recommend that he continue, with a possible exception of waiting for +2 and max at +5. But I find no fault with his activity, with the exception that he should use my cover betting tactic

Duane, you have to start thinking out of the box my friend. Since you have stated that you have been called out several times I strongly suggest you execute cover tactics, one of the best tactics is the one I have recently posted about, besides as "Top Gun" DC has stated, "don't be a headstone"

My Best,

CP