Which counting system?

[theclash230]

Hi,

I've been following lessons for blackjack online and found them great. Im now at the part where I need to choose the counting system that im going to use and stick with. I will be putting alot of practise into this so I want to make sure im choosing the right one.

I've been researching different counting system and from what I have found the Wong halves, Uston SS and Revere point count seem to be the best although abit harder to learn.

Although you proberbly know all of this information, I will show you what is says.

Wong Halves – An advanced, Level 3, balanced strategy, using fractions and optimized for betting found in Professional Blackjack, Pi Yee Press, 1975, rev. 1994. This is one of the strongest systems. But, it is quite difficult. Most people double the tag values to remove the fractions. Although still in use, most people opt for much simpler strategies as current research does not show that much of a difference. Originally, some people side-counted aces when playing single deck with Wong Halves. This is so complex that the tables are no longer in print.

A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T
-1 .5 1 1 1.5 1 .5 0 -.5 -1

Strategy Type Balanced
Level III
Betting Correlation .99
Playing Efficiency .56
Insurence Correlation .75
Ease of use .25
Ace - Reckoned Yes
Compromise Indexes No
Suit Aware No

Uston SS – An advanced, Level 3, unbalanced strategy optimized for betting. This is a proprietary strategy developed by Ken Uston, Arnold Snyder and Sam Case found in The Uston SS Count, Gambling Times Inc., 1986. This is an oddity – an advanced, unbalanced strategy. It was designed as the "Stongest and Simplest" (hence SS) strategy. There are very few indexes used in shoe games as the strategy relies on its 99+% Betting Correlation. Although very strong, "simplest" is clearly not accurate as most people would find a level III strategy daunting. George C.'s Unbalance Zen is quite a bit easier.

A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T
-2 2 2 2 3 2 1 0 -1 -2

Strategy Type Unbalanced
Level III
Betting Correlation .99
Playing Efficiency .54
Insurence Correlation .73
Ease of use 4.5
Ace - Reckoned Yes
Compromise Indexes No
Suit Aware No



Revere Point Count – An advanced, Level 2, balanced strategy optimized for betting found in Lawrence Revere's Playing Blackjack as a Business, Lyle Stuart, 1980. Revere created many Blackjack strategies. I believe this to be his best and one of the best overall of card counting strategies for shoes given the 99% betting correlation. (Recent studies suggest that Zen with full indexes is ever so slightly superior.) A few players use an Ace side-count when playing single-deck games with RPC. But this is very difficult and unneeded. Many long time players still use this strategy. However, new players rarely use it with the availability of easier counts.

A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T
-2 1 2 2 2 2 1 0 0 -2


Strategy Type Balanced
Level II
Betting Correlation .99
Playing Efficiency .55
Insurence Correlation .78
Ease of use 4
Ace - Reckoned Yes
Compromise Indexes No
Suit Aware No

Sorry for the long post, really hope you can advise me. Thanks.

 

[Billy C1]

This Helped

After reading your post, I now find it easy to understand everything Obama said about health care reform.
Thanks!

Billy C1

 

[fwb]

I started out with hi-lo and moved on to zen after I got bored. However I've recently read about the REKO system, and I'm wishing I had started out with it. Not only is it surprisingly effective, its indicies are insanely easy to memorize (all have a +2 pivot). Since I think it's more beneficial to have all indicies memorized 100% rather than struggle with a higher level system that you may only remember a handful of indicies for, I'd say go with REKO.

http://www.qfit.com/simplecardcountingstrategy.htm

 

[theclash230]

lol well tbh i dont know weather thats good or bad as i come from the uk and dont bother listening to what obama has to say haha. what counting system do you use? as you can tell i havn't been doing this long

 

[theclash230]

thanks fwb il take a look at that. just curious though, which one do you think sounds best out of the wong halves, uston ss and revere point count?

 

[johndoe]

Just start with hi-lo. It's the most popular count for a good reason. You won't notice any difference in counting power as a new player; your efforts are much better spent elsewhere.

(This is assuming you're playing shoe games.)

 

[theclash230]

i understand the hi - lo but have seen a few videos on youtube and a few websites that say i shouldnt use the hi - lo. this is because the casinos expect most card counters to use this making it easier for them to spot and as its an easy card couting system to learn, even some dealers themselves learn it. with other card counting systems theres better chances of winning, even if its abit harder which i dont mind. thanks anyway though

 

[fwb]

Just start with hi-lo. It's the most popular count for a good reason. You won't notice any difference in counting power as a new player; your efforts are much better spent elsewhere.

(This is assuming you're playing shoe games.)

Completely agreed here. If you've never tried AP yet, start with something simple. Unless you've played a million hands with hi-lo and can play 60+ indicies perfectly with your eyes closed, you won't get any noticeable benefit from a high-level system. As for what system is best, you can't really define that. Just look them over and pick one that works for you.

Good luck!

 

[PrinceDragon]

i understand the hi - lo but have seen a few videos on youtube and a few websites that say i shouldnt use the hi - lo.

Another victim of JSTAT.....sigh

 

[theclash230]

ok thanks for that. i get what your saying but i would have thought that if you start with a high level system first and get used to that, then its even better. woudn't it just confuse me perfecting the hi - lo, then having to move onto something else after getting used to that? why not start with something with better chances? I dont understand why I wouldn't get a noticeable benefit starting with a high level system.

say in years to come, for example, i mastered the wong halves counting system and i mastered the REKO or Hi - Lo system. What winning differences would I expect to see from the different counting system mentioned. The reason i ask this is because i want some of the best chances available even if it means putting in some hard work.

By the way, im not going against what you are all saying, i just want to know the things im unsure about.

Iv looked at the REKO system and it seems fairly easy to understand, so im guessing that this is better than the hi - lo then? it says its an unbalanced count with no true count so does that mean that you dont have to work out the true count?

 

[theclash230]

and what do you mean, another victim of JSTAT? lol

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Use High-Low or RPC if you are playing shoes. Which count you use is less important than selecting games with good penetration, getting out of bad counts and into new shoes, and getting enough money on the table when you have a good count.

 

[daddybo]

There is nothing wrong with starting with a level 2 counting system. It's not really that much harder to learn. (dependent on the individual of course). They usually have better playing efficiencies than HiLo. Small counting errors don''t hurt you as bad in a level two count either. You don't have to learn all the indices at first. Just the important ones. (although I suggest you learn them all.. this is a game of decimal place advantages) having said that.. there is absolutely nothing wrong with HiLo. It's the "same" as all of them ... just has simpler tags.

Edit: ... and what AutoMonk said about the game selection...and play.

 

[johndoe]

and what do you mean, another victim of JSTAT? lol

JSTAT has a bunch of garbage videos online that claim all sort of nonsense about how hi-lo doesn't work, etc. I think they might be under "moviejjcasino" or something like that.

Don't believe a word of it, he doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's been banned here recently. Of course he'll claim it's "censorship". :laugh:

The specific count you use is of very little consequence in shoe games, compared to how accurately you're using it, bankroll management, etc. as AM said. (As long as you're using well-known counts)

By all means, if you want to be more complicated for a slightly higher theoretical win rate, go right ahead, but don't say we didn't warn you.

 

[theclash230]

haha to be honest i was very close to becomming a victim of JSTAT but thats just because i dont really know much about card counting yet lol. I were watching his videos thinking he must be right. ye hes called moviejjcasino and he says the "10 count" he created beats all card counting systems. at the moment im following lessons on,

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Archive/BlackjackSchool/GameMasterClassics14.shtml (Archive copy)

and im trying to figure out which card counting system to use by looking at this forum and http://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

still not sure what sure 1 to use :-(

 

[kewljason]

Use High-Low or RPC if you are playing shoes. Which count you use is less important than selecting games with good penetration, getting out of bad counts and into new shoes, and getting enough money on the table when you have a good count.

This is the best advise in this thread. Hi-lo works just fine. If you feel you need a stronger level 2 count, I would recomment RPC or Zen. If you decide on RPC, the indices are hard to find. You can substitute Revere's indices by doubling hi-lo, or you can use Automatic Monkey's Ben Franklin Count, which is RPC with rounded indices. http://www.blackjackinfo.com/Ben-Franklin-Count.pdf

 

[bjcount]

This is the best advise in this thread. Hi-lo works just fine. If you feel you need a stronger level 2 count, I would recomment RPC or Zen. If you decide on RPC, the indices are hard to find. You can substitute Revere's indices by doubling hi-lo, or you can use Automatic Monkey's Ben Franklin Count, which is RPC with rounded indices. http://www.blackjackinfo.com/Ben-Franklin-Count.pdf

I know I have posted these before but for anyone wanting to run sims to compare RPC with Zen, HiLo, or any other strategy I attached the indices I use for 6d/8d. The indices are RPC RA for 6d & 8d, DAS, LS, RS4, 1/2dtc conversion.

I added a set for DD but I haven't used them and only ran a few sims after generating them in "Beat to Death" mode.

Clash... if your just learning it's probably wisest to stick with the counts that are more popular such as HiLo, Zen, Mentor, Halves and a few others. Many members will be able to assist you better and you will find a lot of current information related to these strategies. RPC is strong but lacks much of a following, which I have found out over the past year, as many who have used it switched to Zen.

Good cards to you...... which ever "proven" strategy you decide upon.

BJC

 

[theclash230]

thanks everyone for your posts, i've decided im gonna try the revere point count and see how that goes. im just gonna read the ben franklin count now, thanks agen