why not counting in csm ?

[aslan]

Anyone knows the number of decks they use in CSM. In a Niagara casino I saw 5$/10$ pits using CSMs, they use to pile up the discard tray for about 3 hands (which is close to a deck) before inserting them back to the CSM. Not sure on the deck count though.

Right. The claim that counting systems are effective against CSMs could only be justified if ~65% or more of the cards are dealt before any cards are reinserted into the CSM. I have not watched closely, but judging by reports here in the Forum, not near enough cards are withheld before reshuffling. Twelve hands, as described in a previous post, at 6-deck (full table-6 players) would amount to about 65% pen, but does it realistically ever happen?

 

[paddywhack]

Games I've seen

Anyone knows the number of decks they use in CSM. In a Niagara casino I saw 5$/10$ pits using CSMs, they use to pile up the discard tray for about 3 hands (which is close to a deck) before inserting them back to the CSM. Not sure on the deck count though.

Use 4 decks but most of the time the cards are re-inserted every hand. If you can find a game where they wait for at least 6 hands or so there may be a way to take advantage of that.

 

[BJLFS]

The place I was at today uses 5 deck CSMs.

 

[fwb]

Don't bother counting...there are other ways to beat CSMs but it takes a disciplined team with total table control. Bill Zender's books are a good place to start for ideas. CSMs aren't really specifically mentioned but certain legal methods other than counting or holecarding are mentioned and can be applied. One day I took interest in the uncommon way one casino had the dealers shuffle, cut and rotate half the double deck before putting it in an ASM. At first I laughed because I thought they were paranoid about tracking and were just wasting time (especially with an ASM) with excessive shuffling like most casinos do, but then I realized what they were really defending against.

 

[aslan]

Don't bother counting...there are other ways to beat CSMs but it takes a disciplined team with total table control. Bill Zender's books are a good place to start for ideas. CSMs aren't really specifically mentioned but certain legal methods other than counting or holecarding are mentioned and can be applied. One day I took interest in the uncommon way one casino had the dealers shuffle, cut and rotate half the double deck before putting it in an ASM. At first I laughed because I thought they were paranoid about tracking and were just wasting time (especially with an ASM) with excessive shuffling like most casinos do, but then I realized what they were really defending against.

If that was meant to go over my head, it achieved it's intended purpose. :laugh: