Will Sahara reopen this fall?

[shadroch]

There some speculation Sahara might not be closing for good.
It might return in the fall with a new management team, and a new youngerand cheaper staff. Seems one of the problems ownership was having was the vast majority of workers were older and had some serious seniority. Union rules protected them, but when they reopen, the workers jobs are not protected.
Meanwhile, they close for the summer, while rates are at their lowest and air conditioning bills are at their highest.

 

[kewljason]

Such a move would surely be seen as circumventing the union and current higher paid employees and no doubt would end up in court.

 

[shadroch]

Such a move would surely be seen as circumventing the union and current higher paid employees and no doubt would end up in court.

They seem to be observing the letter of the law. They gave the proper notice as required. If they are completely closed for three months, evidently they can reopen and no law requires them to be union. They just couldn't get rid of the union until the contract expired. Closing down voids the contract.

 

[Machinist]

And to that I say to the union.........welcome to the real world...join the rest of us.

Machinist

 

[Billy C1]

Lesson learned?

It couldn't be any more obvious that union greed has caught up to them. The fate of US automakers, union busting in public jobs in MANY states and many more businesses likely to do exactly what Sahara has done.
It's called "writing on the wall" by this redneck!

BillyC1

 

[Machinist]

It couldn't be any more obvious that union greed has caught up to them. The fate of US automakers, union busting in public jobs in MANY states and many more businesses likely to do exactly what Sahara has done.
It's called "writing on the wall" by this redneck!

BillyC1

Billy C.............where's the compassion?
So I'm assuming you don't agree that busineses are in business to "provide jobs"....That they are in business to make money? Hmmmmm. Quite the concept eh?
You probably listen to the "Evil TV Station" and them radical talk show's.
Shad if I was abetting man I would say the odds are they are taking aplications for the reopening as we speak......

Machinist

 

[kewljason]

They seem to be observing the letter of the law. They gave the proper notice as required. If they are completely closed for three months, evidently they can reopen and no law requires them to be union. They just couldn't get rid of the union until the contract expired. Closing down voids the contract.

That may be, Shad, but the unions probably don't see it that way, and I would bet still challenges such a move in court.

 

[Billy C1]

Short lived

That may be, Shad, but the unions probably don't see it that way, and I would bet still challenges such a move in court.

That is true, and a liberal activist judge will side with the unions giving them a temporary victory (heavy emphasis on temporary!!!!!)

BillyC1

 

[blackjack avenger]

Capitalism Works

If businesses don't make money, they won't start. If they don't start there are no jobs! Most jobs are supposedly created by small businesses. Also, coporate empires are probably often built from the ground up. Those who start businesses also supposedly work very hard. If there is no payoff then entrepreneurship will dry up. Probably wages in many companies are the number one expense, if unions drive up those costs, they very well could bankrupt a company.

 

[21forme]

Since we're getting off topic, so I might as well add my two cents:
Unions have destroyed the competitiveness of this country. They were formed to help prevent abusive practices of employers, such as sweatshop working conditions, not to pad the pockets of corrupt union officials who do nothing for the workers. Their time has come and gone. Good riddance.

 

[Billy C1]

Since we're getting off topic, so I might as well add my two cents:
Unions have destroyed the competitiveness of this country. They were formed to help prevent abusive practices of employers, such as sweatshop working conditions, not to pad the pockets of corrupt union officials who do nothing for the workers. Their time has come and gone. Good riddance.

How true. We aren't really "off topic" going by the OP!
The demise of unions would have happened much sooner and faster had it not been for the select politicians in their pockets!

BillyC1

 

[golfnut101]

If businesses don't make money, they won't start.

Define making money...how much is enough ? At what point is someone entitled to make enough to raise a family, pay for medical expenses, own a home ? After the corporations make billions ?

 

[blackjack avenger]

Wealth Creating.

Wealth is not a pie that needs to be divided to make sure everyone get their "fare share". Shouldn't a fare share be what one creates?

Bill Gates and Microsoft:
He was involved in creating a corporation that employs many and improves our quality of life with his products.

What if it was determined he "made enough" 20 yrs ago, would he continue to work for enjoyment? I doublt it. So if he was limited yrs ago we would perhaps not have the latest products? Though I guess we could have done without Vista?:laugh:

The economy is many pies that can be created, not one pie. If someone invented a new fuel source is humanity richer? Is wealth and more pies created? Did the wealth of humanity increase when petroleum was discovered?

Basic human instinct:
If you keep what you produce you will produce more.
If you do not keep what you produce you will produce less.

I am for low income taxes and a high death tax. Keep what you earn, but when you are done give it back. The government does have to be funded.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Basics of Government

Define making money...how much is enough ? At what point is someone entitled to make enough to raise a family, pay for medical expenses, own a home ? After the corporations make billions ?

Nothing in the Constitution about "entitlements". The Democrats who oversaw Fannie and Freddie thought the government should provide home ownership for all, look where that got us.

Ben Franklin
am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer

The above is common sense really:
If everyone was offered their full pay not to work, what would happen? The economy would collapse due to very few working.

A 30 hr work week would clean up unemployment, same paycheck. Look at the book "end of work"

 

[shadroch]

Nothing in the Constitution about "entitlements". The Democrats who oversaw Fannie and Freddie thought the government should provide home ownership for all, look where that got us.

Ben Franklin
am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer

The above is common sense really:
If everyone was offered their full pay not to work, what would happen? The economy would collapse due to very few working.

A 30 hr work week would clean up unemployment, same paycheck. Look at the book "end of work"

The Democrats that oversaw Fannie and Freddie? Strange, but it was the Republicans that controlled all three branchs of government when President Bush was pushing "The Ownership Society". These quasi-govermental agencies failed because of loans given out between 2001 and 2008. Who was overseeing them?

 

[blackjack avenger]

Oversight

The Democrats that oversaw Fannie and Freddie? Strange, but it was the Republicans that controlled all three branchs of government when President Bush was pushing "The Ownership Society". These quasi-govermental agencies failed because of loans given out between 2001 and 2008. Who was overseeing them?

I believe the Dems had direct oversight of Fannie and Freddie, Barnie Frank and Chris Dodd? Oh, pox on both parties for a lot of things.

Also, many don't consider the Bush's conservative's.

 

[Shoofly]

If businesses don't make money, they won't start. If they don't start there are no jobs! Most jobs are supposedly created by small businesses. Also, coporate empires are probably often built from the ground up. Those who start businesses also supposedly work very hard. If there is no payoff then entrepreneurship will dry up. Probably wages in many companies are the number one expense, if unions drive up those costs, they very well could bankrupt a company.

In the late 1970's I observed unions from the point of view of middle management, and then when the company I worked for went bankrupt, for a short time as a union dockworker for trucking companies.

I agree that driving up costs through large wage increases contributed to the demise of some companies (and their unions), but the factor that overwhelmingly created this demise was the unions absolute insistence on protecting bums. I watched as people making good money simply would not work, and there was nothing the company could do about it. If an individual was a "union brother", there was no circumstance that would cause the union to turn its back on him.

The worst case I saw was when a city driver (city drivers traditionally would deliver freight in the morning, pick up freight in the afternoon, then return to the terminal) did not return. A search was instituted, and he was found falling down drunk in a tavern. He was brought back to the terminal, tests were given to prove he was inebriated, and he was fired. The union went to bat for this guy and he got his job back. Doesn't it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling to know you are on the same road with this guy driving a large truck.

 

[Billy C1]

I believe the Dems had direct oversight of Fannie and Freddie, Barnie Frank and Chris Dodd? Oh, pox on both parties for a lot of things.

Also, many don't consider the Bush's conservative's.

Barney Frank was far more interested in overseeing his next BJ (NOT Blackjack) and Dodd was overseeing his sweetheart deal with Countryside-----------fine Democratic oversight!!!!!:laugh:

BillyC1

 

[blackjack avenger]

Union Mis Values

In the late 1970's I observed unions from the point of view of middle management, and then when the company I worked for went bankrupt, for a short time as a union dockworker for trucking companies.

I agree that driving up costs through large wage increases contributed to the demise of some companies (and their unions), but the factor that overwhelmingly created this demise was the unions absolute insistence on protecting bums. I watched as people making good money simply would not work, and there was nothing the company could do about it. If an individual was a "union brother", there was no circumstance that would cause the union to turn its back on him.

The worst case I saw was when a city driver (city drivers traditionally would deliver freight in the morning, pick up freight in the afternoon, then return to the terminal) did not return. A search was instituted, and he was found falling down drunk in a tavern. He was brought back to the terminal, tests were given to prove he was inebriated, and he was fired. The union went to bat for this guy and he got his job back. Doesn't it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling to know you are on the same road with this guy driving a large truck.

The union should want to separate the wheat from the chaff of workers, to make the company stronger so it earns more $ so the union can ask for more money for the productive workers! Then the union can show their workers can make more and can recruit other businesses. Especially, if a union shop and the union gets it's dues regardless if from a bad worker with tenure vs a new good worker.

It's also better for society to encourage a work ethic vs union/political connections.

In the drunk example that guy needed treatment and gotten off the road, a union boss with ethics would see that. At least reassigned off the road.

Perhaps unions can be reborn with a culture of fairness, ethics and productivity.

 

[lovethespaniard]

I strongly support unions. Working people can barely afford to own homes or buy health insurance or to send their kids to college. It's pathetic.