Wong vs. Schlesinger

[SlyPooch]

I may be reading the charts wrong, but from what I can see there is a difference on the "count threshhold" needed to stand when player has a 12 or 13...

1. player has hard 12 vs dealer 5...Wong says stand if true count is -1 or higher but Schlesinger says stand if count is -2 or higher

2. player has 13 vs. dealer 2...Wong says stand if true count is 0 or higher but Schlesinger says stand if count is -1 or higher

3. player has hard 12 vs. dealer 6... Wong says stand if true count is 0/-3 or higher (depending on H17 vs. S17) but Schelsinger puts number at -1

Am i missing something or is one of them wrong?

 

[DSchles]

I may be reading the charts wrong, but from what I can see there is a difference on the "count threshhold" needed to stand when player has a 12 or 13...

1. player has hard 12 vs dealer 5...Wong says stand if true count is -1 or higher but Schlesinger says stand if count is -2 or higher

2. player has 13 vs. dealer 2...Wong says stand if true count is 0 or higher but Schlesinger says stand if count is -1 or higher

3. player has hard 12 vs. dealer 6... Wong says stand if true count is 0/-3 or higher (depending on H17 vs. S17) but Schelsinger puts number at -1

Am i missing something or is one of them wrong?

This has been a thorn in people's sides ever since Wong decided to truncate his index values, rather than, say, floor or round them.

The result is that all of Wong's negative indices got shifted one point higher when he published the newer edition of his book (see the first full paragraph at the top of page 254, for his explanation). The page 213 indices in BJA3 are all floored, which explains the differences. Don't worry about it.

Don

 

[SlyPooch]

A few side notes, in looking at the fabalous rules 18 indices, u sometimes take insurance AND double when dealer has Ace. Also, if one were to only follow those rules, u play basic strategy all other spots, right??

 

[DSchles]

A few side notes, in looking at the fabalous rules 18 indices, u sometimes take insurance AND double when dealer has Ace. Also, if one were to only follow those rules, u play basic strategy all other spots, right??

Sorry, I'm not understanding your question. You mention two plays out of 18 in the I18. What do you mean by "you play basic strategy for all other spots"?

Don

 

[SlyPooch]

Sorry, let's take one at a time:

1. Using only the I18, if i had hard 10 against dealer A and TC was +5, i would take insurance and then if dealer didn't have 10 down card, i would double down ( both insurance and double on same hand). Is this correct?

2. Using the I18 ONLY, if i had any pair ( other than TT) or soft total, i would simply follow basic strategy since I18 does not address other spots, right?

 

[gronbog]

The confusion is coming from SlyPooch's use of the word "spot". He's using it to mean "play" (as in 10 vs A), where "spot" to us means the area on the table where we place our bets (as in playing 1, 2 or 3 spots).

So, to answer question 2 above. Yes, if you don't know the index for a play, or are deciding not to use it (because you're only using the I18 in your case) then use basic strategy.

 

[SlyPooch]

The confusion is coming from SlyPooch's usr of the word "spot". He's using it to mean "play" (as in 10 vs A), where "spot" to us means the area on the table where we place our bets (as in playing 1, 2 or 3 spots).

So, to answer question 2 above. Yes, if you don't know the index for a play, or are deciding not to use it (because you're only using the I18 in your case) then use basic strategy.

Is answer to #1 above also yes?

 

[gronbog]

The answer to question 1 is also yes assuming that the count still warrants that double when it's your turn to act on your hand.

If you think that doubling after insuring raises eyebrows, wait until you end up surrendering after losing insurance!