Would that work?

[positiveEV]

So you are with a guy, playing blackjack. You go out for a bathroom break and when you are away, he takes your chips and bet them on red. Now let's say the ball lands on black. You come back and say "Hey, where is my money?".

Since the guy gambled with your money, would the casino give it back to you? Of course you could not do that multiple times but would it work once?

 

[ThunderWalk]

Huh?

So you are with a guy, playing blackjack. You go out for a bathroom break and when you are away, he takes your chips and bet them on red. Now let's say the ball lands on black. You come back and say "Hey, where is my money?".

Since the guy gambled with your money, would the casino give it back to you? Of course you could not do that multiple times but would it work once?

I think if someone took your chips from the Blackjack table and bet them at the Roulette table... they could be arrested.

 

[Persnickety1]

So you are with a guy, playing blackjack. You go out for a bathroom break and when you are away, he takes your chips and bet them on red. Now let's say the ball lands on black. You come back and say "Hey, where is my money?".

Since the guy gambled with your money, would the casino give it back to you? Of course you could not do that multiple times but would it work once?

I think that would be considered theft, and your "friend" may even get arrested if you raise a big stink about it before he is gone.

I don't think the Casino is under any obligation to reimburse you, even though a sympathetic pit critter might comp you something for your loss.

I never understood people who leave their chips behind during bathroom breaks.

 

[mdlbj]

Asia, I would suggest you use this creative thinking towards, working on your skills and knowledge of how to beat the casinos rather than use it to try to cheat them.

You will most likely get away with it unless, the dealer and the PB is heads up on what chips are in play for any given player. Remember, there are hundreds or thousands of cameras in a casino and only a few people watching them. At the same time however, if your buddy gets scared and rats you out, you both are equally screwed. Also, it does not mean that you will get anything out of it either. If he is playing roulette, let him use his own money to loose with.

Is it worth a fat fine and time spent in jail? I don't think so.

My 2 cents.

 

[EasyRhino]

Last weekend, a dude stepped away from the table (cell phone rang), and his doofus friend placed a bet on his behalf in his spot with his money. Dealer wasn't going to allow this delegated betting until the phone doofus agreed it was okay.

 

[Jerome]

I never understood people who leave their chips behind during bathroom breaks.

I usually leave a small stack (5 reds) just to save my spot.

 

[ThunderWalk]

The money watchers.

I never understood people who leave their chips behind during bathroom breaks.

A friend has suggested to me that the BJ table is the safest place to leave your money when hitting the rest rooms because the "eye-in-the-sky," and the dealer, are always watching.

The usual method I've seen is to ask the dealer to hold your spot, and then they place a clear plastic chip spacer disk on your betting circle, indicating someone is already sitting there.

 

[ihate17]

Not responsible

A friend has suggested to me that the BJ table is the safest place to leave your money when hitting the rest rooms because the "eye-in-the-sky," and the dealer, are always watching.

The usual method I've seen is to ask the dealer to hold your spot, and then they place a clear plastic chip spacer disk on your betting circle, indicating someone is already sitting there.

Yes, the dealer will mark your spot (it is called a lamer) but the dealer, pit and eye are not responsible if someone grabs your chips or the guy sitting next to you removes a chip or two from your stack.

Sure the eye will review things and if they catch the guy you might get your chips back, but if they do not catch him, they are under no obligation to pay you back.

ihate17

 

[ihate17]

This thread?

I hole card, I might play with a partner that I signal information to, I consider these things legal and so does the law even if many casino execs would like to consider them illegal.

A thread like this, where there is a discussion about running an illegal scam against a casino, is over the line in my opinion. It reflects poorly on those of us who find legal ways to beat a game using our brains and senses.

ihate17

 

[positiveEV]

Was just wondering what would happen, never said I would do it =/

 

[ScottH]

I hole card, I might play with a partner that I signal information to, I consider these things legal and so does the law even if many casino execs would like to consider them illegal.

A thread like this, where there is a discussion about running an illegal scam against a casino, is over the line in my opinion. It reflects poorly on those of us who find legal ways to beat a game using our brains and senses.

ihate17

Maybe there should be an "illegal methods" Forum! I don't think Ken would want to do that in case anyone thought he was condoning illegal activities, but I am still interested in hearing about the illegal ways of AP as well as the legal ones.

 

[QFIT]

From what I've read, sticking up a liquor store works more often than not. But the variance is very high

 

[EasyRhino]

A minor countermeasure to chip thieves is to stack low-denomination chips on top of your big ones. This makes it harder to just lift a few off the top.

Jangly silver dollars would be best.

 

[supercoolmancool]

From what I've read, sticking up a liquor store works more often than not. But the variance is very high

Where do you read about this stuff?!? I've never really considered sticking up a liquor store as a +EV move. The powers that be do a good job of keeping that out of the general publics conciousness/awareness. You usually hear about fraud and identity theft. But I guess I should have known the the best techniques are the ones nobody talks about. That is why this site is such a great resource.

 

[shadroch]

From what I've read, sticking up a liquor store works more often than not. But the variance is very high

Screw the liquor store. They are usually ready for a robbery attempt.Rob places where no one expects it. Movies.As an example-who ever hears of a theatre getting robbed,but they have a lot more cash than a liquor store.
Refreshment stands at the Little League Field,or ice cream trucks-all got cash,few have guns or cameras.

 

[zengrifter]

A friend has suggested to me that the BJ table is the safest place to leave your money when hitting the rest rooms because the "eye-in-the-sky," and the dealer, are always watching.

When someone steals your money, even off the table, the casino is under no more obligation to reimburse you then would 7-11 just because you were robbed in the store during a hold-up. zg

 

[ThunderWalk]

Yes, but...

When someone steals your money, even off the table, the casino is under no more obligation to reimburse you then would 7-11 just because you were robbed in the store during a hold-up. zg

I'm sure you're correct, but I'd think it would be in any casino's best interest to have security people nab anyone seen taking your money, since the publicity surrounding the event, and news stories of how casino people merely stood by and watched as someone took your money, would reflect on them badly, and perhaps hurt future tourist traffic.

 

[shadroch]

Except that in almost every market,the casinos are both a major employer and a major advertisor in the newspapers so a minor theft will get even less publicity than it deserves.

 

[Jerome]

Movies.As an example-who ever hears of a theatre getting robbed,..........

I was in Springfield, Illinois when the last Star Wars movie came out. The local multi-plex had a midnight premier showing on the day of the release. Someone dressed as Darth Vader held up the ticket booth and made a clean getaway in a late model pickup. The movie-plex promptly banned the wearing of masks.

 

[halcyon1234]

Let's say Person A does this with $100, once. Person B is in cohoots, and they are going to split the money (assuming both kicked in $50)

Best case scenerio: B wins the roulette coinflip. Total gain, $100.

Other cases:

1) B loses the coinflip. A complains and is reimbursed. +$0

2) B loses the coinflip. A complains and is denied. -$100

3) B loses the coinflip. A complains. The casino reviews the tapes, and finds a connection between A and B. Both are banned from the casino. -$100

4) Same as 3, except that A and/or B are arrested. -$huge. Bail, legal fees, lost wages, fines, jail time, beach-front beatings, etc.

The way I see it, there's only 1 scenerio where they are going to win any money, and there's only a less than 50% chance of it happening (Roulette's house edge). If it was equally likely that the house would reimburse as not, then you're looking at:

EV = .5 * 100 + .25 * 0 + .25 * (-100) = 50 + 0 - 25 = +25.

Now let's figure out what the minimum chance of being wiped out (case 4) is to make this profitable, assuming a 50/50 shot of getting their money back is, assuming the cost of scenerio 4 is $100,000 (legal fees and a few years of lost salary)

EV = .5 * 100 + .25 * 0 + [(X * -100) + ((1 - X) * (-100000)]

EV = 50 -100X -100000 + 100000X
EV = -99950 + 99900X

So, 99900 / -99950 basically means that there would need to be at MOST no more than a 0.0006% chance of being prosecuted. This percentage could be reduced if the players increase the "stolen money". If it was done with $1000, it would be:

EV = 500 - 1000X -100000 + 100000X
= 99500 + 99000X
= 0.006%

So as the bet size increases, the minimum chance of "Case 4" being OK increases. Except that I'd say that the higher the bet, the less chance there is of a casino refunding the money. It's plausable that someone swipes a green chip. I'm sure the casino wouldn't make a huge fuss over a green chip, given a one time occurance, good tape, and a convincing acting job. In fact, one can more probably see a chip-swipe HAPPENING at a low-stakes table.

But to be in the position where $1000 or $10000 is even in play-- and not have it suspicious to begin with-- not as likely.

All this is assuming a one-time deal. If this grift were run multiple times, with the "world" having memory of each previous attempt, I'd hazard a guess that the chance of Case 4 will expotentially rise to 1. It's fishy to begin with, and having it happen multiple times makes it fishier. Even if it's at different joints, it's only a matter of time before some dealer/critter/security person/owner, etc is talking to another of the same from a different casino, and they both have the same story to tell. "This guy did this..." "Yeah, that happened to us to...". From there it gets passed up the ladder, spread, boom.

Now if this happens when the two players aren't in cohoots, and the B is actually malicious-- well, then that's a civil matter. The casino MIGHT refund, might not, won't charge. But I'm sure A will be having some words with B. =)