Year End Win/Loss Statement

B

Blackjacker2

Member
#1
#1
I was just reviewing my Win/Loss Statement from my favorite Connecticut casino, and saw my estimated wins. I always play rated, but seeing my estimated win has me a little concerned. It is not accurate, as I have won more from this one casino, but seeing the number they think I won is very enlightening. I don't play with very much cover.

Does a high win/loss get looked at by casino personnell, or will they just think it's luck, and I'll lose it all back plus some eventually?

How often do regular gamblers have a positive win rate for a calender year?

Should I claim this on my taxes?

Thanks for your help!!
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
My 2008 Win/Loss balance sheet


I finished the year + $19,650

Fortunately, my wife has a good job and we have NO debts at all.

Plus 784 (green) units I am very happy with.
It would be more meaningful if I had recorded my time at the tables,
but I failed to note session lengths.
For 2009 that error will not be repeated.
I can say how many days I played and I can ESTIMATE an average of 4 hrs.
With that assumption in place I had played a total of 69 days, on which 47 days I won and 22 days I lost. 69 x 4 = 276 hours. 784/276 = 2.84 units per hr. = $71 / hour

That figure is not high when considering that I never play 1 hand unless I am backing off my 2 or 3 hands played at 10-1 on each, effectively creating a spread of 20-1 or 30-1. Obviously, I cannot always grab 3 seats, although I do it quite often by sitting down at empty tables; but I suspect that a weighted average would have my actual spread at better than 24-1.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Blackjacker2 said:
" ... Does a high win/loss get looked at by casino personnell, or will they just think it's luck, and I'll lose it all back plus some eventually?

How often do regular gamblers have a positive win rate for a calender year?

Should I claim this on my taxes?
Click to expand...

The short answer is YES the casino reviews Win/Loss statements.
Mostly to offer better comps to huge losers.
Sorting a data base and extracting the biggest winners and biggest losers takes no time at all.
If you were the Casino Manager would you invest a moment to print out these selections ?

Re: taxes. The I.R.S. says that you have no choice in this matter.
The law demands that you claim your net winnings.
What you do is a matter of personal ethics.
The casino does not report your wins to the I.R.S.
If you are a quasi-whale, your cash transactions that sum to over 10K in a single gaming day are reported to the Treasury Dept.
and the I.R.S. can access them easily but have little or no interest in them.
If you put "Professional Gambler" on your tax returns you can deduct your gambling-related expenses from your winnings, but are forbidden from carrying losses over to the fllowing tax year.

How often "regular gamblers" win over a year's play depends on how many hours they play. If said gambler has visited the casino once a month and plays for a couple of hours he may have a probability of winning that is reasonably high, especially if he plays proper basic strategy, or, paradoxically, if he plays a progressive system and was lucky.

However, if we look to a typical player, with an approx. -2.00% e.v.
(see Extra Stuff by Peter Griffin for data re typical player's
expectation) if he plays weekly for 4 hrs. his chances of being
a net winner rapidly approaches ZERO.

The casinos know all of this of course. It is pretty much obvious.

As far as "winners" go, the other factor is the size of the wins.

If you win 80% of the time but only have a median win of a few hundred dollars they are unlikely to take the time to back you off.
If you win 60% of the time but your median win is several thousands of dollars you will reach what is known as their "choke point".
That is the threshold that the Casino Manager has set as to how much of "their" money you can "take" from them.

In response to your implicit question:

I was trespassed from Foxwoods after I won 14 of 15 consecutive (2 and 3 day) trips while betting just chunky green.
 
R

rpd709

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Was just reviewing my 2008 Win/Loss Statement from Harrah's

It shows that I've won $5,000 this year.

I don't believe thats right or is it?

I mean I know I've came out with some decent wins for what I've took in to play but I don't believe its close to $5,000

Hmmmm.....

Wish I would have kept track of it.
 
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FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#5
#5

I hope that you won more, and at places that have better games !

Casino Win / Loss statements are notoriously inaccurate.

You need to keep your own records. It is easy to do.
 
R

rpd709

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Well as of late,

I've just been going to our local horseshoe for just social type playing.

I'm going to check out Grand Victoria up towards Cincinnati and see what I think of it.

I've already started my 2009 RPD709 Win/Loss Statement.

Trust me, I know Harrah's rules on BJ SUCK Donkey Balls but I can't seem to show my friends that go up to Harrah's casino in Indiana that there are much better/decent games 50/75 miles up river.
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
FLASH1296 said:
It would be more meaningful if I had recorded my time at the tables, but I failed to note session lengths. For 2009 that error will not be repeated.
Click to expand...


So that means you've been making that error since the mid 60's :confused:

What a nugget. Thanks.
 
Pelerus

Pelerus

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
How exactly does one acquire his year end win/loss statement from a casino? Is it sent by mail, if the player plays regularly while using a player's card? Or does it have to be requested?

Also, for Flash1296:

FLASH1296 said:
I was trespassed from Foxwoods after I won 14 of 15 consecutive (2 and 3 day) trips while betting just chunky green.
Click to expand...
Wow - had you been backed off at any time prior to that? From what I have read (and observed, though that doesn't count for much given my level of play), Foxwoods is nowhere near being a "sweat joint," so it surprises me that they would just outright 86 you. But maybe the eye was surveilling you for a long time and they didn't want to give any indication of suspicion until they had made you completely... if so, is this standard procedure? I thought that most places would back off a suspected AP at least once before a trespass.

Lastly, if you don't mind my asking, do you still play in the area? I think I remember reading in a previous post that CT is/was your primary or home turf, so did this ban happen recently? If so, did it cause major changes in your playing locations? I know that if something like that happened to me, I would basically be SOL with regard to nearby casinos...not that I play at Foxwoods or anything. :eek:
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
To clarify,

Yes I had a prior back-off, under my real name.

This was years ago.

I would be trespassed in more recent years.

I play in Vegas, Mississippi, and Atlantic City.

I no longer set foot in the nutmeg state.
 
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