Zen Betting Strategy

[weavin42]

I've decided to switch counting systems (from Hi-Opt I to Zen) and I'm having trouble determining my edge over the house for kelly betting. Should I use the "True Edge" as my edge over the house and if so do I subtract the house's edge due to the rules and # of decks? Or should I use a 1D TC for both index numbers and betting, with a different system for betting? Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Josh

 

[Renzey]

Zen vs. Hi Opt I

With Zen, your advantage will run just about half that of what your running count was with Hi Opt I. Thus, you can basically double all your index numbers and ramp points.

 

[zengrifter]

With Zen, your advantage will run just about half that of what your running count was with Hi Opt I. Thus, you can basically double all your index numbers and ramp points.

He'll need to convert his matrix#s to 1D TC (or even 2D TC ala KISS-3) and adjust accordingly. zg

 

[weavin42]

The index numbers I'm using are from casino verite tables for the complete zen count. I just didn't know how to adjust my bet based on the TC or what my actual edge over the house at a certain TC. I'd like to use a 1-6 spread on DD and 1-10 on 6 deck games. I'd also like to use 1/2 kelly betting. Does that sound pretty good? What do you use zg?

Josh

 

[zengrifter]

The index numbers I'm using are from casino verite tables for the complete zen count. I just didn't know how to adjust my bet based on the TC or what my actual edge over the house at a certain TC. I'd like to use a 1-6 spread on DD and 1-10 on 6 deck games. I'd also like to use 1/2 kelly betting. Does that sound pretty good? What do you use zg?

I use 3/4Kelly with 1-2x3 6D wong, 1-2x15 6D all, and 1-2x8 2D.

With 1DTC-ZEN figure that each RC+1= +.25 adv. To know your initial bet-raise point, factor in the starting housEdge first. zg

 

[Renzey]

Zen vs. Hi Opt I

Josh -- Here are the hard doubling tables from A) World's Greatest Blackjack Book for the Hi Opt I count, and; B) the 1983 edition of Blackbelt in Blackjack which presented the Zen count strategy with true-count-per-deck indices. Both were multi-deck charts.

HO 1
A) 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. A
8: H. H. 5. 3. 2...................
9: 1. 0 -2........ 3................
10 ................... -4 -1. 5.. 4
11........................ -4 -3.. 1
INSURANCE: +3 true

ZEN
B) 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. A
8: H. H.10 7. 4...................
9: 2 -2 -5........7................
10.....................-9 -4. 7.. 5
11.......................-10 -9.. 1
INSURANCE: +5 true

 

[weavin42]

I use 3/4Kelly with 1-2x3 6D wong, 1-2x15 6D all, and 1-2x8 2D.

With 1DTC-ZEN figure that each RC+1= +.25 adv. To know your initial bet-raise point, factor in the starting housEdge first. zg

Did you mean RC+1=+.25 or TC? TC would seem to make more sense.

Also I can't quite figure out what you mean by 1-2x3 6D wong, 1-2x15 6D all, and 1-2x8 2D. Is 3, 15 and 8 your bet spread? If so what did you mean by 1-2x?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate the help.


@Renzey

Thanks for your help, I have The World's Greatest Blackjack Book and I have the complete index numbers from casino verite for the complete Zen. I guess my question for you is why learn a second level count system if you can pretty much *convert* between the two? I understand HO-1 is weak due to the ace neutrality, that is the primary reason I switched (I couldn't consistently keep an accurate side count and make adjustments for betting).


I Just want to make sure I can utilize the increase in bet correlation by switching systems. I'm just starting out and don't want to make common mistakes like over betting my bankroll. I have a month or so to practice the new system before I even step foot in the casino. I just want to be ready.

Thanks again for the help

Josh

 

[Renzey]

HO 1 to Zen

Josh,
You can indeed pretty much convert a set of indices for a level one count to those for a level two count, and yet glean extra efficiency due to the more accurate betting correlation of the more comprehensive count system.

HO 1 for example, ignores the deuce and 7 while undervaluing the 4 and 5 -- not to mention the problems with the Ace. Even if you side counted and adjusted for Aces perfectly with HO 1, your BC would be 94.7 with a PE of 61.3. Zen, right out of the box is 96.4 and 62.8. I heartily believe Zen is the way to go between the two. In fact, it's tough to do much better than Zen.

 

[Sonny]

Also I can't quite figure out what you mean by 1-2x3 6D wong, 1-2x15 6D all, and 1-2x8 2D. Is 3, 15 and 8 your bet spread? If so what did you mean by 1-2x?

The "2x" means he plays two hands of that bet. So a 1-2x8 spread would be a 1 unit minimum bet and two hands of an 8 unit maximum bet. That example would be a total spread of 1-16.

-Sonny-

 

[zengrifter]

Did you mean RC+1=+.25 or TC? TC would seem to make more sense.

OOPS - yes, I meant TC. Its actually .30 increase, but using .25 makes the number conservative.

Also I can't quite figure out what you mean by 1-2x3 6D wong, 1-2x15 6D all, and 1-2x8 2D. Is 3, 15 and 8 your bet spread? If so what did you mean by 1-2x?

Its in units: 2x3u = 2hands of 3units each, etc. zg