ZEN COUNT EDGE

#1
Hello everyone, I want to know if you agree to use a betting ramp as follows rules:

Vegas strip and no resplit, edge - 0.61%

Bankroll: 1000 Units
True count / Edge / Bet unit

00 / - 0.61% / 01
01 / - 0.36% / 01
02 / - 0.11% / 01
03 / +0.14% / 01
04 / +0.39% / 04
05 / +0.64 / 06
06 / +0.89% / 08
07 / +1.14% / 10

What do you think?
 
#2
Goodrodrich said:
Hello everyone, I want to know if you agree to use a betting ramp as follows rules:

Vegas strip and no resplit, edge - 0.61%

Bankroll: 1000 Units
True count / Edge / Bet unit

00 / - 0.61% / 01
01 / - 0.36% / 01
02 / - 0.11% / 01
03 / +0.14% / 01
04 / +0.39% / 04
05 / +0.64 / 06
06 / +0.89% / 08
07 / +1.14% / 10

What do you think?
8 Decks :)
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm not familiar with the zen count (use HiLo), but I'd go to 2 units at 03 for two reasons:
1. A 4x jump is a bit obvious
2. You have an edge at 03, so might as well start ramping up.

You don't mention the penetration, but as it's Vegas, it's likely mediocre, so I'd go to at least 12 units, if not more, as my top bet.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#4
You need to get some software, as the ramp isn't optimal. Do you not use any index numbers? If so, it certainly isn't the case that your edge advances uniformly by 0.25% at all counts. That can't be right.

Also, as stated, with the rather poor rules you cite (the -0.61% isn't due just to no resplits. Is it H17? NDAS? State all the rules, please.), you surely need more than a 1-10 spread.

Don
 
#5
DSchles said:
You need to get some software, as the ramp isn't optimal. Do you not use any index numbers? If so, it certainly isn't the case that your edge advances uniformly by 0.25% at all counts. That can't be right.

Also, as stated, with the rather poor rules you cite (the -0.61% isn't due just to no resplits. Is it H17? NDAS? State all the rules, please.), you surely need more than a 1-10 spread.

Don
The rules are Vegas Strip / Not resplit.
Penetration 65%.

It would be better a ramp of 1 to 20 units
 
#7
21forme said:
I'm not familiar with the zen count (use HiLo), but I'd go to 2 units at 03 for two reasons:
1. A 4x jump is a bit obvious
2. You have an edge at 03, so might as well start ramping up.

You don't mention the penetration, but as it's Vegas, it's likely mediocre, so I'd go to at least 12 units, if not more, as my top bet.
Penetration is 65% would be better a ramp of 1 to 20 units right?

My computer is bad and I can't use power sim
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#8
I just entered the numbers into CVCX using HiLo and the I18. Should be pretty close to zen. Using a 20:1 spread and a $10 unit, your EV is $7.43/hr!
With 80% pen, it's 19.69/hr.

As I said, find a better game.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#9
I guess you understood "Vegas Strip rules" better than I did, since you did a sim. Was it DAS or not? Was it S17 or not? Inquiring minds want to know what "Vegas Strip rules" means.

Thanks.

Don
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#10
Don - Vegas Strip rules is a somewhat nebulous term (after all, Zee likes to use it :) ). I assume it is 8D, H17, DAS, no RSA no Surr. That's what most Strip shoe games are. Oh yes, I assumed 3:2, which many Strip shoe games aren't any longer. :oops:

Bottom line, even if it were S17, DAS, RSA, LS, with 65% pen, such a game is still unplayable.
 
#11
21forme said:
I just entered the numbers into CVCX using HiLo and the I18. Should be pretty close to zen. Using a 20:1 spread and a $10 unit, your EV is $7.43/hr!
With 80% pen, it's 19.69/hr.

As I said, find a better game.
Evolution Gaming at PokerStars allows you to bet at least $10 to $1000 equivalent to a ramp of 1 to 100 units the problem is the Bankroll hehe
 
#12
DSchles said:
I guess you understood "Vegas Strip rules" better than I did, since you did a sim. Was it DAS or not? Was it S17 or not? Inquiring minds want to know what "Vegas Strip rules" means.

Thanks.

Don
Vegas Strip Rules:

1. Dealer stands on soft 17.
2. You may double down on any 2 original cards.
3. You may not double down after splitting a pair.
4. You may split any pair.
5. You may resplit any pair except Aces.
6. Split Aces receive only one card each.
7. No surrender.
8. Dealer either receives a hole card, or the players original bet only is lost if the player doubles down or splits a pair and the dealer gets blackjack.
9. Insurance is allowed up to one half the players bet, and pays 2 to 1
10. Player blackjack is paid 3:2
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#13
Goodrodrich said:
1. Dealer stands on soft 17.
3. You may not double down after splitting a pair.
1. Not unless you're playing high limit.
3. That's not typical for shoe games. For double deck, it's often the case.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#16
If you know that your edge numbers per count are reliable (no idea, for Zen, personally), you would bet proportional to your advantage. Software (or at least a spreadsheet) would give you specifics on risk of ruin, hourly EV, etc.

So do a 1-20 spread, Wong out/in if you can, and pick your highest bet to be TC=+10 or so.

Since you're putting real money on the line though, you really should spend a little on software to do a proper analysis. And buy and read Don's book.

But most importantly, if the best game you have is 65% of an 8D game, I wouldn't even bother. IMO you'll be risking a lot of money for the opportunity to make very little. It's a waste of time. Look for something better.
 

BoSox

Well-Known Member
#17
Goodrodrich said:
Evolution Gaming at PokerStars allows you to bet at least $10 to $1000 equivalent to a ramp of 1 to 100 units the problem is the Bankroll hehe
Talking about bankrolls is not a joke, it is a very serious matter.

johndoe said:
But most importantly, if the best game you have is 65% of an 8D game, I wouldn't even bother. IMO you'll be risking a lot of money for the opportunity to make very little. It's a waste of time. Look for something better.
Goodrodrich, you are not going to get better advice than the above quote.
 
Top