Zman's article on detection of an holecarder

[elias001]

there is something i don't get about the scenario that Zender paints. Okay, i saw youtube video where zender gets interviewed on the program, call "ask the casino guy". I might have gotten the title of the program slightly wronged. But..anyways....zender was showing about how ace tracking is done and also about how to catch card counters. He said that most counters would know perfect strategy perfectly, and can count down a deck in 40 seconds or less.

Soo my impressions are that casinos a) would rather that the general public don't even know squat about BS, or b) if they do know it, to follow it religiously so that if one ever deviates from it, that could be a give away that you are up to some sorcery to give yourself an advantage at the BJ table.

If that is the case, it have to be the most **** up thing ever. For one if say i am playing and i spot the hole card due to a consistent dealer, and i made my play based on the info, i can be barred. I am sorry, but a casino's purpose is to tempt a part of our human nature, which is the greedy side of human nature to gamble, and hence to throw away their money. Sooo if you have a sloppy dealer and she/he is not doing their job properly, basically, that is free info give away. And the casino is expecting the player to abide by some unwritten honor code where the info will not be use. Someone should educate Bill Zender on human nature. Did he skipped all his course on moral and political philosophy while he was going to university. Or is he still smoking some weed or have his head stuck in the sand. If he was taking any philosophy classes in my university, any of the profs would have brand him as brain dead.

 

[WRX]

For one if say i am playing and i spot the hole card due to a consistent dealer, and i made my play based on the info, i can be barred. I am sorry, but a casino's purpose is to tempt a part of our human nature, which is the greedy side of human nature to gamble, and hence to throw away their money. ...And the casino is expecting the player to abide by some unwritten honor code where the info will not be use.

No. A casino's purpose is to make money. Period. It's the free market at work. In the past in Nevada, and in the present in certain other parts of the world, it has not been unknown for casinos to use illegal methods up to and including extortion and murder to get money out of their customers. Today, the games in the U.S. are MOSTLY honest, but casinos will continue to exploit every lawful edge against their customers, consistent with what they perceive to be adequately good public relations. If casino management believe that a customer is not profitable, they have the legal right to refuse that customer's business. (Atlantic City excepted.)

Typically, casinos do not abide by any unwritten honor code, nor do they expect their customers to do so. On the contrary, they're accustomed to seeing customers engage in all kinds of underhanded tactics, from high-level cheating to cheap angle-shots.

 

[elias001]

WRX,

I agree with you, but the thing is...it is commonly know that casinos don't like players that has an edge over the house. So if we get slopping dealers and the players gets the info inadvertently. Then as players, what should we do?? especially, there is nothing that says we can not use the information.

 

[aslan]

WRX,

I agree with you, but the thing is...it is commonly know that casinos don't like players that has an edge over the house. So if we get slopping dealers and the players gets the info inadvertently. Then as players, what should we do?? especially, there is nothing that says we can not use the information.

Casinos are in the business of trying to trick customers into thinking they have a good chance of winning money, and serious money at that. They are deceivers, tempters, trappers, playing on the emotions and larceny of their customers. The only good construction you can put on their services is that of providing entertainment. But anyone who is in the know realizes that hundreds of people lose their life savings in Las Vegas each and every month of the year. If you ran a business and that many people were ruined due to your product, would you continue to put it on the market?

Car manufacturers can be fined or sued big time if their products result in injury to customers. Food providers must be very careful that their products do not result in customer poisoning. But casinos continue to willfully create the illusion that it is easy to win big, that the customer has a reasonable chance, that it is just a matter of luck.

Bars are required to turn away drunk customers. When was the last time you saw a casino turn away a foolish bettor, an addicted bettor, a naive bettor, or an incompetent bettor? When someone loses their life savings, has a casino ever said, "Oh, sorry, sir. Here's your money back. Try to be more careful. You may have an addiction, or you may have believed all out hype we put out that you have a reasonable chance of winning. Sorry about that. We only want to provide entertainment at reasonable price. Please accept our sincere apologies."

 

[WRX]

I agree with you, but the thing is...it is commonly know that casinos don't like players that has an edge over the house. So if we get slopping dealers and the players gets the info inadvertently. Then as players, what should we do?? especially, there is nothing that says we can not use the information.

On that, we agree completely. Exploit every lawful advantage.

 

[WRX]

Bars are required to turn away drunk customers. When was the last time you saw a casino turn away a foolish bettor, an addicted bettor, a naive bettor, or an incompetent bettor?

In Nevada, casinos are SUPPOSED to turn away drunken gamblers, at least. But I see them assisting falling-down drunks in continuing to play all the time. Disgusting.

 

[elias001]

And Zender is in the business of helping the casino to do what exactly again??? Game protection conference. I think the casino are not worry about cheaters compare with worrying about advantage players.

 

[aslan]

And Zender is in the business of helping the casino to do what exactly again??? Game protection conference. I think the casino are not worry about cheaters compare with worrying about advantage players.

Casinos are plenty worried about cheaters, both among players and their own employees.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

And Zender is in the business of helping the casino to do what exactly again??? Game protection conference. I think the casino are not worry about cheaters compare with worrying about advantage players.

For any reasonable casino boss, cheaters are of far greater concern than card counters eking out a 1-2% advantage over the house.

A card counter can still easily lose his shirt with some bad luck. Cheaters, not so much.

 

[aslan]

Casinos are plenty worried about cheaters, both among players and their own employees.

I should have said thieves, not cheaters, with regard to casino employees.

 

[Praying Mantis]

For any reasonable casino boss, cheaters are of far greater concern than card counters eking out a 1-2% advantage over the house.

A card counter can still easily lose his shirt with some bad luck. Cheaters, not so much.

Are you sure? Have you ever seen a casino boss take measures against cheaters? I haven't...you know why? They can't spot them. A "good" cheating team has free reigns in a casino. Only ones that would have a clue what they are doing is another "good" cheater.

On the other hand, card counters are constantly being harassed. Besides backoffs, being 86'd, how many times do they get shuffled, flat bet, etc.?

Casinos would like to think they can get cheaters, but the only cheaters they really get are those that work for them...dealers and conniving PCs...the "good" ones take away thousands!

Regards,
PM