Are you a professional blackjack player?
- Thread starter Craps Master
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LVBear's definition requires you only to earn a significant part of your income from playing, which I do. I don't think there's any requirement to play on weekdays (which I also do sometimes.) I think we can all agree that a professional AP plays more than blackjack, thus to call him a "professional blackjack player" is a misnomer.
But it doesn't matter what anyone calls you or what you call yourself. This is a ridiculous discussion.
But it doesn't matter what anyone calls you or what you call yourself. This is a ridiculous discussion.
kewljason said:
Yes, Mr Maz, I did vote that way due to the limited options available. 
I notice that the posters going on about ambigeous definitions of 'pro' and not enough options are all people i wouldn't consider professionals.
RJT.
Look-you can act like a professional and look like one. Good. That's nice. If you make your living by playing blackjack then you're a professional blackjack player. If I wash windows for a living I'm not really a Transparent Wall Engineer but I'm a professional window washer. I'm surprised we've made this simple question complicated.:joker::laugh:
And I notice that the people who care about this label are the last people I would accept any professional or AP advice from.
In case you haven't noticed, this is the internet, and anybody can be anything they want. If having the label or title of "pro AP" is important to you I have to question your motivation for playing. Call me whatever the hell you want, everybody else at the table does. If it starts affecting my EV I'll complain.
In case you haven't noticed, this is the internet, and anybody can be anything they want. If having the label or title of "pro AP" is important to you I have to question your motivation for playing. Call me whatever the hell you want, everybody else at the table does. If it starts affecting my EV I'll complain.
My motivations for playing are fairly simplistic - money and lifestyle.
The people i take advice from are those i know make substantial sums year in year out playing - say what you like about 'anybody can be anything', but once you've met the person you take advice from, they either 'are' or 'are not'. What seperates the 'ares' from the 'are nots' is very straight forward and obvious. The real question here is can you be honest enough with yourself to know what you truly are? It is only a case of ego except for those people who genuinely are pro, for them it's just a statement of fact.
RJT.
The people i take advice from are those i know make substantial sums year in year out playing - say what you like about 'anybody can be anything', but once you've met the person you take advice from, they either 'are' or 'are not'. What seperates the 'ares' from the 'are nots' is very straight forward and obvious. The real question here is can you be honest enough with yourself to know what you truly are? It is only a case of ego except for those people who genuinely are pro, for them it's just a statement of fact.
RJT.
I don't agree. Having watched quite a few AP's play, I can get a good idea of whether a guy knows what he's doing or not after watching a few shoes (assuming I have time and opportunity to do that ) but I can only guess at what his bankroll, lifestyle and playing history are. His personal style and risk aversion might be very different than what I would expect. I'd have to follow him around all week to know anything more than whether or not he's a competent AP. But being I'm just a muttering, besotted degenerate gambler at the table, who am I to judge?
Maybe it's because we're mostly male that we can't pick the phonies out readily. Ask any girls who cruise bars; they can pick out a $20 Chinatown Rolex and a corny, fake pickup line from about 10 feet away. They're also pretty damned good at telling when you don't have your cards, hence their success in the poker world.
Maybe it's because we're mostly male that we can't pick the phonies out readily. Ask any girls who cruise bars; they can pick out a $20 Chinatown Rolex and a corny, fake pickup line from about 10 feet away. They're also pretty damned good at telling when you don't have your cards, hence their success in the poker world.
In my youth I spent a lot of time around professional pool players owing to a famous pool room that was in my area and where I myself played. I remember two very talented young unknowns gambling on one of the showcase tables. Some of the discussions among pro and non-pro onlookers was as to whether either of these two young combatants might be a "player."
To be a player was to be in a somewhat magical category reserved to those who found favor with the pool gods and were destined to achieve a near mythical status not permitted to mere mortals. But no amount of reasoning could ever convince the onlookers and kibitzers back then that little did it matter who was and who wasn't a player. To them, it was all that mattered (and to me as well). Why it was at the very heart of pool itself. And what could be more important than that?
The mystique of being a player seems to have a parallel in some of the previous remarks. My hat is off to anyone who makes a living at anything, especially those things that are the more challenging in my estimation, such as casino blackjack, poker and other AP pursuits. I am sure that history one day will reveal once and for all just who the professional blackjack players and APs were. Until then, however, I know too that it is hopeless to expect APs at all levels to refrain from discussing such matters.
To be a player was to be in a somewhat magical category reserved to those who found favor with the pool gods and were destined to achieve a near mythical status not permitted to mere mortals. But no amount of reasoning could ever convince the onlookers and kibitzers back then that little did it matter who was and who wasn't a player. To them, it was all that mattered (and to me as well). Why it was at the very heart of pool itself. And what could be more important than that?
The mystique of being a player seems to have a parallel in some of the previous remarks. My hat is off to anyone who makes a living at anything, especially those things that are the more challenging in my estimation, such as casino blackjack, poker and other AP pursuits. I am sure that history one day will reveal once and for all just who the professional blackjack players and APs were. Until then, however, I know too that it is hopeless to expect APs at all levels to refrain from discussing such matters.
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A question for the professionals
Is there consensus among professionals who is a professional?
In my quest to gain blackjack knowledge I have come across varied internet forum archives that question the professionalism of many well known blackjack personalities. Among them are Don Schleisinger, Fred Renzey, Ian Anderson, Hollywood Dave Stann, Bootlegger, Arnold Snyder, Norm Wattenberger,and even Ken Smith. There are also lots of threads about Blackjack HOF members Kieth Taft and Laurence Revere.
As a complete amatuer I am certainly not going to disregard any information, or throw away any books, or software I have by Schleisinger, Renzey, Snyder and anybody else who is questioned online. Anybody can call themselves a professional at anything that doesn't mean we have to believe them. In something like blackjack it is worse because there isn't an official degree or league you can join that certifies you as a professional.
Is there consensus among professionals who is a professional?
In my quest to gain blackjack knowledge I have come across varied internet forum archives that question the professionalism of many well known blackjack personalities. Among them are Don Schleisinger, Fred Renzey, Ian Anderson, Hollywood Dave Stann, Bootlegger, Arnold Snyder, Norm Wattenberger,and even Ken Smith. There are also lots of threads about Blackjack HOF members Kieth Taft and Laurence Revere.
As a complete amatuer I am certainly not going to disregard any information, or throw away any books, or software I have by Schleisinger, Renzey, Snyder and anybody else who is questioned online. Anybody can call themselves a professional at anything that doesn't mean we have to believe them. In something like blackjack it is worse because there isn't an official degree or league you can join that certifies you as a professional.
No, I am not trying to put anyone one. It was just a thought that occured to me after reading through 5 pages of "What is a professional." I noticed that only 8 people have identified themselves as professionals and there are some who have not voted and probably wont. So I posted my question.
(sorry):cry:
(sorry):cry:
Are you using AP techniques to catch bugs in the swamp, Sagefr0g? That should count as professional AP, but not quite sure about the blackjack part. :joker::whip:
But seriously, I'm sure blackjack concepts could be used in other fields, but I'm sure that's not what they're talking about--just as they apply to blackjack. And the leaning seems to be toward making a living at the game of blackjack or partial living if it shares income with other advantage plays (not counting advantage plays at ordinary business pursuits, such as writing books on blackjack). Do I make myself perfectly blurred?
But seriously, I'm sure blackjack concepts could be used in other fields, but I'm sure that's not what they're talking about--just as they apply to blackjack. And the leaning seems to be toward making a living at the game of blackjack or partial living if it shares income with other advantage plays (not counting advantage plays at ordinary business pursuits, such as writing books on blackjack). Do I make myself perfectly blurred?