Are you a professional blackjack player?

[kewljason]

What is the point of all the hair-splitting in this thread? The question is "are you a professional blackjack player" not "are you a non-professional blackjack player who is more skilled than some professionals?" It's not a matter of skill, talent, bet size, EV, bankroll, record-keeping or anything like that. It's mostly just a matter of time. Professionals generally spend more time playing blackjack than other people, seeing as how they don't have full-time jobs getting in the way of their ability to log hours plying their trade. Success is also not a component. Believe it or not, there are professional blackjack players who are also bustouts, some periodically, some perpetually. Let's not get sidetracked with a bunch of nonsense in answering what should be a very easy yes/no question.

All of this hair-splitting could have been avoided if you had given your definition of "professional", as I suggusted early on. It is not nearly as cut and dry as you seem to think. In looking up professional in 4 different dictionaries, I find between 4 and 13 definitions listed in each dictionary, including "acheiving a certain level of skill or expertise".

I suggested that you difine it to avoid all this, which those of us that have seen this topic before, knew was coming. Then people could have just answered whether they met your definition. Would have been much easier.

 

[QFIT]

It's not a matter of skill, talent, bet size, EV, bankroll, record-keeping or anything like that. It's mostly just a matter of time.

Ah so, it’s time that matters. I guess that means a piece-work seamstress that spends 7 days, 16 hours a day sewing shirts in a sweatshop in Shenzhen (or Queens) to feed her children is more of a “professional” than someone that creates dresses for red-carpet events. (Actually, I'd agree with that, but that’s another discussion.)

I still fail to see the need for this term “professional.”


Chung Mee: Opium is my business. The bridge mean more traffic. More traffic mean more money. More money mean more power.
Lawrence Bourne III: Yeah, well, before I commit any of that to memory, would there be anything in this for me?
Chung Mee: Speed is important in business. Time is money.
Lawrence Bourne III: You said opium was money.
Chung Mee: Money is Money.
Lawrence Bourne III: Well then, what is time again?

 

[Craps Master]

It is not nearly as cut and dry as you seem to think.

But, it is. People are just being disingenuous. Despite this, the poll results are decent in that some of the people who have voted that they are professional blackjack players are, in fact, professional blackjack players.

 

[blackjack avenger]

For a Nonsesensical Waste of Time

It's not a matter of skill, talent. Success is also not a component. Believe it or not, there are professional blackjack players who are also bustouts, some periodically, some perpetually.

If no skill or no talent then how are you a professional? You cannot support yourself, you will lose. No money, can't play, not a pro. I have no skill at golf, made no money, guess I am a pro. I once swung a club. If you are busted out and not playing, then you are not a professional.:joker::whip:

Skill is required in more conventional professions like doctors and lawyers and if you are not skilled enough you will lose your liscense or be disbarred.

This sure is getting a lot of attention. How many have commented that this is a waste of time? Perhaps I am different, if I don't find something interesting I don't comment. I believe some who have commented on the waste of time have commented again?

You don't seem to realize the traffic caused by the discussion is keeping your thread current on the main page so you may get more poll results. Your welcome!:joker::whip:

You spent a lot of time defining a professional while condemning others for doing the same? :joker::whip:

Why Craps Master have you started this poll?

 

[NightStalker]

pro:

1. successful
2. experienced
3. proven advantage player

 

[blackjack avenger]

Truth on the Net

But, it is. People are just being disingenuous. Despite this, the poll results are decent in that some of the people who have voted that they are professional blackjack players are, in fact, professional blackjack players.

How do you know they are professional, because they say they are?:joker::whip:

Probably many counters think they are playing a winning game when they are not, pseudo counters.:joker::whip: So they won't be pros long.:joker::whip:

The poll probably indicates who thinks they are a pro, and this is not meant to be a slight on anyone. With the numerous definitions one man's pro is another's semi pro or amateur.

 

[Craps Master]

Ah so, it’s time that matters. I guess that means a piece-work seamstress that spends 7 days, 16 hours a day sewing shirts in a sweatshop in Shenzhen (or Queens) to feed her children is more of a “professional” than someone that creates dresses for red-carpet events. (Actually, I'd agree with that, but that’s another discussion.)

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me, arguing with yourself, or both. But, just to indulge you, I would say the seamstress in the sweatshop in Shenzhen is a professional seamstress. I would go on to say that this woman could not also be a professional blackjack player if she's already spending 16 hours a day, 7 days a week sewing shirts. That said, I would also say that the person creating dresses for red-carpet events is professional. You didn't specify, but this person may also be a seamstress, or maybe a designer. In either event, neither person is "more" of a professional than the other anymore than a guy who wins $1,000,000/year playing blackjack professionally is "more" of a professional than a guy who wins $50,000/year playing blackjack professionally. The former is certainly more successful and is probably just better at blackjack (or harder working, or less risk averse, etc.), kind of like how Kobe Bryant is better at basketball than some guy making the league minimum in the NBA.

I still fail to see the need for this term “professional.”

Lucky for me, I don't need you to see the need for the term. You can go vote though, if you want.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Experienced?

1. successful
2. experienced
3. proven advantage player

Why experienced? As soon as Lebron James signed his first contract he was a pro.

If someone has a big bank, studies some CC, quits their job and starts playing for a living, they are a pro. It is just a matter of how long will they be successful. Yes, experience does help.:joker::whip:

 

[golfnut101]

Pros

Im suprised that 21% acknowledge being a 'pro'. Not questioning their vote, just thought that there would be so few.

 

[Craps Master]

The poll probably indicates who thinks they are a pro, and this is not meant to be a slight on anyone. With the numerous definitions one man's pro is another's semi pro or amateur.

It is. All of this talk about what does or does not constitute a professional blackjack player is nonsense. It seems if we were talking about professional attorneys or professional basketball players or professional auto mechanics, there wouldn't be all this second-guessing. Not that it matters. I'm just interested in the votes. If people think they are professional blackjack players, they'll vote yes. If not, no. Simple.

I think maybe you're finally on the same page as me. Maybe.

 

[Bojack1]

All of this hair-splitting could have been avoided if you had given your definition of "professional", as I suggusted early on. It is not nearly as cut and dry as you seem to think. In looking up professional in 4 different dictionaries, I find between 4 and 13 definitions listed in each dictionary, including "acheiving a certain level of skill or expertise".

I suggested that you difine it to avoid all this, which those of us that have seen this topic before, knew was coming. Then people could have just answered whether they met your definition. Would have been much easier.

Actually I think hair splitting comes with not being absolutely honest. In basic terms this is a very simple question. Do you get up in the morning and go to a job? If you do what is that job? Whatever it is, that is your profession. Even if you don't go to your job every single day, its still your profession. Its not about skill level, its about what you call your profession, and I don't think there are too many people here who cannot identify what they do for a living. Not what you think you could do, not what you wish you could do, not something you are good at and do often, its what is your job. All the other shades of gray can be discussed if you want, but the question is simple and so is the answer. You don't have to be great at your job for it to be your job, or in other words your profession.

 

[Craps Master]

Im suprised that 21% acknowledge being a 'pro'. Not questioning their vote, just thought that there would be so few.

This doesn't surprise me. Professional blackjack players are a rare breed.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Actually I think hair splitting comes with not being absolutely honest. In basic terms this is a very simple question. Do you get up in the morning and go to a job? If you do what is that job? Whatever it is, that is your profession. Even if you don't go to your job every single day, its still your profession. Its not about skill level, its about what you call your profession, and I don't think there are too many people here who cannot identify what they do for a living. Not what you think you could do, not what you wish you could do, not something you are good at and do often, its what is your job. All the other shades of gray can be discussed if you want, but the question is simple and so is the answer. You don't have to be great at your job for it to be your job, or in other words your profession.

I go to different jobs in different mornings (or evenings.) If what you're saying is that a person who treats blackjack like a job instead of like a pastime or hobby is a professional, that's one of the better and more applicable answers I've heard here. The problem is AP is not like other jobs, it's difficult to make a comparison to normal jobs so using the terminology and colloquialisms of normal jobs is bound to lead to misunderstanding. Forgive me for preferring to be accurate in how I use words.

Coincidentally, I cannot legally call myself a "professional engineer" despite engineering being my profession. To use that title requires a license, and one of the requirements of getting that license is to have worked under someone who already has it, which I happen to have never done. For the kind of work I do it would be totally useless to get a PE license (obviously, if none of my elders and betters have had it) so I've never pursued it, which probably explains my indifference towards being called it in other fields.

 

[shadroch]

Actually I think hair splitting comes with not being absolutely honest. In basic terms this is a very simple question. Do you get up in the morning and go to a job? If you do what is that job? Whatever it is, that is your profession. Even if you don't go to your job every single day, its still your profession. Its not about skill level, its about what you call your profession, and I don't think there are too many people here who cannot identify what they do for a living. Not what you think you could do, not what you wish you could do, not something you are good at and do often, its what is your job. All the other shades of gray can be discussed if you want, but the question is simple and so is the answer. You don't have to be great at your job for it to be your job, or in other words your profession.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you. Most people that work don't have professions. They have jobs. Someone may have a profession-CPA, for example, but be forced by circumstances to be driving a cab. Accounting is his profession, taxi driver is his job. A kid waiting tables at Chilis has a job. A long-term waiter at Hugo's Cellar has a profession.
A rule of thumb for me would be- If you can be replaced by the next person thru the door, you have a job, not a profession.

 

[blackjack avenger]

What is Being A Pro AP = To?

What careers, jobs, or professions is being an AP akin to?

Stock trader?
Futures trader?
Currency trader?
Day trader?

Probably something in the finance field, since this is where a lot of our knowledge comes from. Are these considered professions?:joker::whip:

 

[Craps Master]

You guys, with your dictionaries and semantics... just go vote already.

 

[Bojack1]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you. Most people that work don't have professions. They have jobs. Someone may have a profession-CPA, for example, but be forced by circumstances to be driving a cab. Accounting is his profession, taxi driver is his job. A kid waiting tables at Chilis has a job. A long-term waiter at Hugo Cellar has a profession.
A rule of thumb for me would be- If you can be replaced by the next person thru the door, you have a job, not a profession.

I accept what you are saying here and agree with it. But it does not change my view that you will know what your profession is, and all the semantics in the world won't change that. My point is there is nobody that has a profession that doesn't realize what it is. If you are playing bj as a profession you damn well know you are, and if your not you damn well know your are not. And I believe if you don't know the answer to this very simple question, the odds are you may have many jobs and a profession as well, but blackjack is not it.

 

[kewljason]

Actually I think hair splitting comes with not being absolutely honest. In basic terms this is a very simple question. Do you get up in the morning and go to a job? If you do what is that job? Whatever it is, that is your profession. Even if you don't go to your job every single day, its still your profession. Its not about skill level, its about what you call your profession, and I don't think there are too many people here who cannot identify what they do for a living. Not what you think you could do, not what you wish you could do, not something you are good at and do often, its what is your job. All the other shades of gray can be discussed if you want, but the question is simple and so is the answer. You don't have to be great at your job for it to be your job, or in other words your profession.

Well, so be it Bojack. I can live with your definition. As a matter of fact, there isn't a definition posted in this thread that would have caused me to vote otherwise, given the 2 options. I make my living solely from blackjack play. I just haven't achieved anywhere near the level of expertise that I feel a professional should reach to call himself a professional, so i wouldn't normally call myself that. But that's just me.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Humility is Nice to See in the Young LOL

I make my living solely from blackjack play. I just haven't achieved anywhere near the level of expertise that I feel a professional should reach to call himself a professional, so i wouldn't normally call myself that. But that's just me.

Ummmm
You make your living from BJ, hence you are a professional

Now, recognizing you want to increase your skill is fine.

Pro sports ranks are filled with those who are not high achievers, yet are professionals. Many just sit on the bench.:joker::whip:

 

[shadroch]

Actually, KJ, you are one of the few people here I do consider to be a BJ pro.