Damian's CIPHER WARNING -VIDEO

[ScottH]

I don't get it. That sounds like -EV to me:

$10*0.987 - $1000*0.013
$9.87 - $13 = -$3.13
EV = -3.13%

-Sonny-

Well, at the very least I could get investors with my amazing 98.7% win/loss ratio! :joker:

 

[zengrifter]

Many threads dating back to 2004 cleanly debunked all of Cipher's outrageous claims. Liquid Chips chose to ignore these threads. It is simply inaccurate for him to claim that Cipher was a respected member of the online gambling community prior to last year.

I'm surprised that its taken so long to purse a civil action again Cipher.

He didn't ignore us, he was already in. CIPHER was "respected" at those neophyte sites like Casinomeister and Winneronline where they wouldn't know any better. zg

 

[sabre]

He didn't ignore us, he was already in. CIPHER was "respected" at those neophyte sites like Casinomeister and Winneronline where they wouldn't know any better. zg

He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.

 

[sagefr0g]

He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.

i think the point Zen is trying to make is at some point Cipher had gained the confidence of a significant number of posters on those sites as i believe Damain (the Union guy) described.

 

[Kasi]

I don't get it. That sounds like -EV to me:

$10*0.987 - $1000*0.013
$9.87 - $13 = -$3.13
EV = -3.13%

That’s worse than baccarat, casino war, and several craps bets.

-Sonny-

Actually I probably didn't do a very good job of making more clear that a "session" was defined as the winning of 10 units using a cancellation system with a 1000 unit roll. So u would win 98.7% of the sessions.

I think a "session" probably averaged betting 20 trials or so with betting on average 220 units or so. Maybe more.

In other words one wagered alot more than the way u are assuming.
I believe it was for a pass line bet on craps. So I guess 1,41%. So nowhere near a 3% HA game. But still negative, like u say, which is really the only point here.

Another point is, with a modest goal, one really can win a very large percentage of the time.

U might be up 6700 units and made 14000 passes of the dice before u'd expect ur first wipeout. Not sure of math on that one lol.

But not bad, perhaps, for a guy who goes to Vegas twice a year for a few days.

Aside to SCMC - u sure u want ScottH on ur team lol.

 

[zengrifter]

He ignored the posters at Casinomeister and Winneronline who rebuked Cipher's absurd claims. There were many of them. Saying that Cipher was respected at either CM or Winneronline back 2004 isn't accurate.

OH. Well I did a cursory history search and found these sites welcoming the great CIPHER and his system. zg

 

[Kasi]

i think the point Zen is trying to make is at some point Cipher had gained the confidence of a significant number of posters on those sites as i believe Damain (the Union guy) described.

I really don't understand why anyone would think a "system" worked.

It's so silly. Perhaps he played on the "random number generator" card - like he has figured out how to beat it because we all know the random generator is fixed?

All anyone need remember is "all betting sytems are equally worthless". What is so darn hard about that?

And, unless Lanidar or Damian or someone convinces me otherwise, I doubt the sytem comes with a defined set of all-encompassing rules. Just my impression.

I doubt if Liquid will ever receive a dime, the more so since the investment was in an illegal activity. O well let's not go there. I hope he gets some money back despite his lack of judgment.

I doubt if Cypher would have paid even if he had won.

 

[ChefJJ]

I really don't understand why anyone would think a "system" worked.

It's so silly. Perhaps he played on the "random number generator" card - like he has figured out how to beat it because we all know the random generator is fixed?

All anyone need remember is "all betting sytems are equally worthless". What is so darn hard about that?

And, unless Lanidar or Damian or someone convinces me otherwise, I doubt the sytem comes with a defined set of all-encompassing rules. Just my impression.

I doubt if Liquid will ever receive a dime, the more so since the investment was in an illegal activity. O well let's not go there. I hope he gets some money back despite his lack of judgment.

I doubt if Cypher would have paid even if he had won.

Well said.

 

[ScottH]

Aside to SCMC - u sure u want ScottH on ur team lol.

Like supercoolmancool, everything I touch turns to gold!

 

[LANIDAR]

Kasi:
And, unless Lanidar or Damian or someone convinces me otherwise, I doubt the sytem comes with a defined set of all-encompassing rules. Just my impression.

I spoke to Damian, on the phone, a couple of times about Ciphers system.
He didn't like it, wasn't going to attempt to use it, so you will not get him to convince you that it works.
I am not here to convince you or anyone else that Ciphers system works.
I have not and will not even attempt to do so.
All I know is what it did for me.
Once again....

I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO EVEN TRY TO USE THE CIPHER SYSTEM!!!
YOU WILL LOSE!!!​

 

[LANIDAR]

Hrmm... I wonder. Does Cipher's system come with an NDA?

If not, how about exercising your right of first sale? Post it, for free, for all to see (and analyze and debunk).

The debunking might not stop people from using it-- but at the very least, they won't have to fork any money over to yuknutz to get it. =)

Sorry Halcyon I have no idea what NDA is.
Excercising my right of first sale? What do you mean?
I'll be more than happy to post what ever you want....I just have to understand what it is.

 

[LANIDAR]

Kasi:
From ur earlier posts, being on the phone with him while ur playing, etc, I was wondering if there is actually an exact set of rules specified in his system?

No Kasi, there were no exact set of rules.
It was a matter of what the previous hands were, how many wins, how many loses, how many wins in a row, how many losses in a row, how much you wagered and won and how much you wagered and lost that would determine the next wager and how much to wager.
I'm sorry but it is very difficult to explain in a post.

 

[Kasi]

No Kasi, there were no exact set of rules.
It was a matter of what the previous hands were, how many wins, how many loses, how many wins in a row, how many losses in a row, how much you wagered and won and how much you wagered and lost that would determine the next wager and how much to wager.
I'm sorry but it is very difficult to explain in a post.

Thanks Lanidar - sounds about like how I bet

At least I guess you're saying people get some loose set of written rules if they purchased? Or maybe u wouldn't know since u didn't purchase it?

U think he would talk on the phone with all actual buyers to guide them?

I guess there is some vague system since it is difficult to explain. Which is fine.

Or ur saying the system itself would suggest the next wager for u based on whatever?

I used to get a kick out of his threads/strands betting 1 cent/hd and then betting $700

Maybe he figured if he doubled a buyer's purchase price, they'd be happy and he's out of it?

I guess I remain amazed at the apparent success of it, although who knows how many he actually sold.

Whatever - not even sure why I'm posting here Thx for sharing.

 

[LANIDAR]

Thanks Lanidar - sounds about like how I bet

At least I guess you're saying people get some loose set of written rules if they purchased? Or maybe u wouldn't know since u didn't purchase it?

There are loose rules regarding betting. But, it doesn't make a difference if the system was bought or given to you.

U think he would talk on the phone with all actual buyers to guide them?

Not to guide them...tell them how much to bet.

I guess there is some vague system since it is difficult to explain. Which is fine.
Or ur saying the system itself would suggest the next wager for u based on whatever?

Very difficult to explain. And the system does not suggest the next wager.

I used to get a kick out of his threads/strands betting 1 cent/hd and then betting $700

It's a fact that some bets are very small and the next one could be very large. Hence, as I mentioned in a former post that you had to be well funded to play.

Maybe he figured if he doubled a buyer's purchase price, they'd be happy and he's out of it?

I have no idea why he was selling the system. Originally it was $500 now I think it is $1000. I always wondered why Cipher wanted to sell it since he was supposed to be making so much money playing.

I guess I remain amazed at the apparent success of it, although who knows how many he actually sold.

Not a clue to how many sold

Whatever - not even sure why I'm posting here Thx for sharing.

Your welcome.
And, once again, I am NOT promoting the system nor do I recommend using it.
Stay away....VERY far away.
If you should decide to use it....don't. Instead send the money you're going to throw away to me. :laugh:

 

[Liquid Chips]

Cipher has been busy lately on his website. He has put up some recent postings and under "Blackjack University" he finally posts some of the "patterns" that he talks about, i.e., switchbacks, triggers, mirages, etc.

 

[Kasi]

There are loose rules regarding betting. But, it doesn't make a difference if the system was bought or given to you.Your welcome.
And, once again, I am NOT promoting the system nor do I recommend using it.
Stay away....VERY far away.
If you should decide to use it....don't. Instead send the money you're going to throw away to me. :laugh:

Don't worry - I was never tempted by it lol. How anyone would be is beyond me but that's neither here or there.

But I appreciate ur input on it. I especially liked when he would recommend departures from BS based on God knows what.

Maybe I should sell u, or anyone, my system that has yielded over a 1% payback greater than a flat-bet payback over 300,000+ hands.

Because ur my friend, (picture me smoking a huge cigar lol), I'll let u have it for a mere $200 lol.

But it's a loose, not very definable, system that depends on an awful lot of things. Not one of which is counting.

Actually, that's true lol.

Thx Lanidar for sharing.

 

[person1125]

I have no idea why he was selling the system. Originally it was $500 now I think it is $1000. I always wondered why Cipher wanted to sell it since he was supposed to be making so much money playing.

currently $595 for US residents - or $1100 outside the US.

Bad thing is if you read through everything it DOES sound like a good deal. Keep up the work on getting the word out that it IS NOT a good deal.

 

[dacium]

Whats sad is he has probably made many many thousands out of this.

No **** cipher even includes such stupidness as a 'trick double down'. Based on how many you have previous hands you have won the system involves not doubling down at certain times because cipher says its a deliberate loss.

The videos sure are good for a laugh "oh I see what he is doing here, switch-back switch-back then triple wins". What amazing is that he actually sometimes genuinly seems to believe his system works.

 

[halcyon1234]

Sorry Halcyon I have no idea what NDA is.
Excercising my right of first sale? What do you mean?
I'll be more than happy to post what ever you want....I just have to understand what it is.

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement. Something that you sign that says "I promised not to reveal anything I learn from you".

Right of first sale is, basically, the right to resell anything that you have purchased. It's why you can legally sell CDs after you've listen to them. Or sell your car. If you bought it, you own it, you can sell it. Or give it away, or do anything you want.

In other words: Unless he's made you sign something that SPECIFICALLY says you can't give away his system (a product), you are allowed to give it away, freely, to anyone you want. In other words, post it for free everywhere, and there is zero reason for anyone to pay money for it.

 

[LANIDAR]

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement. Something that you sign that says "I promised not to reveal anything I learn from you".

Right of first sale is, basically, the right to resell anything that you have purchased. It's why you can legally sell CDs after you've listen to them. Or sell your car. If you bought it, you own it, you can sell it. Or give it away, or do anything you want.

In other words: Unless he's made you sign something that SPECIFICALLY says you can't give away his system (a product), you are allowed to give it away, freely, to anyone you want. In other words, post it for free everywhere, and there is zero reason for anyone to pay money for it.

I understand completely and I do NOT have a NDA.
I have a copy of the Cipher System that Cipher sent me labeled "Cipher 1.1.1".
I'm going to download it onto my new computer, just to be sure it works properly and if it does who ever wants a copy is welcome to it.
I'll let you know how the download and the test (play money only) works.

If anyone does want a copy and uses it, I MUST STRESS that you should only use it in a PLAY MONEY mode only.

Also, if Zen or any of the other Executive Members, Administrator's, etc feel that I should NOT be doing this, then I will NOT allow anyone to have a copy.