Introduction

Beldin · Dec 19, 2010

HockeXpert said:

Here - lemme go grab a spinnerbait and a fishing boat for you as well

By the way - I always wondered where those PC's were hiding at - bet the ceiling gives em a pretty good view...maybe they should construct the ceiling a little better

If i can get away with a 60 bet spread - sometimes 120 as I do request the limit to get upped to 2k, why wouldn't i want to get away with it...though last night - they pretty much called me out. The pit boss in charge last night told me my request to have the table limit change would only occur if the other players would agree to play the minimum $200 to 2k range. I'm not even going to bother ask the other 2 at the table at the time to follow my up and down I would have most ineviably gone through.

The .....'s are a bit of sarcasm at other players for what I interpreted as sarcastic/trolling comments - without being too overt about it. Kinda like when I explained processes to mortgage brokers and they're being a little slow....so i start going reallllllll slow for em - lol

Beldin · Dec 19, 2010

21gunsalute said:

No - I didnt say you specifically called me a pit critter - I was referring to the general forum group that someone called me a PC as none of my posts I think would actually indicate I was PC.

**Edit oi...I am late on the mountain dew - I'm definitely calling you out though bra - I say that statement above calls me a Pit Critter. Watch out people's! I'm a pit critter with a ludicrious story who doesn't want to look up how to spell "ludicrious".

You can easily tell I'm not a pro at counting. I'm probably getting luck than skill at this point. But I don't see how you think any of my posts are really giving you conflicting information. Pretty sure I've admitted to not keeping track the entire time....Pretty sure I've made it a point to ask what other people thought of my current playing style. Where people have actually commented on the style vs just bashing on several of your posts - the comments from other people have actually been helpful.

I'll go back and see if there are the following posted comments by me from me that would warrant the bashings you've given me

- see list below. Free free to add any comment I've made that actually warrants me getting bashed up and down vs just asking a inquisitive question.....

"I'm better than you"

"I know how to count better than you"

"You all are dumb and I'm smart"

"The things you are telling me are useless (when people actually posted constructively"

"L 2 count better"

"Your momma is bigger than a whale"

"You sister is hawt and i f'd her all night long"

"I ran over your dog"

"You're style of clothes are god awful ugly"

Beldin · Dec 19, 2010

21gunsalute said:

wait...doesn't that statement above reference me being a pit critter? Or am I just starting a little late on my mountain dew.....

Baberuth · Dec 19, 2010

Interesting replies include knowledge & humor

Beldon,

Kudos again to you for hanging in there. You keep posting more and more large betting stories about your play and the thread is interesting because many have joined, mostly in disbelief.
I have never read so much about one player betting those numbers. Excuse me for being skeptical, but I have been tapped for so much less. Regardless, if they are letting you play with little cover at those numbers, it’s the best game in town. There are few here that wouldn’t love to spread 50 to 2 hands of 1000 when the true count is +5.
Keep posting your play and answering posts. Even if you were a troll, it has brought out informative posts, humor, math and skepticism without name calling and disrespect. Either way, you got some balls.
If a new guy posted a question asking for help from the APs here

“Can I spread 50 to 2X1000, what will happen?”

The responses would show you why there is so much negativity to your post. I hope you understand.

Babe

Beldin · Dec 19, 2010

Baberuth said:

Beldon,

Kudos again to you for hanging in there. You keep posting more and more large betting stories about your play and the thread is interesting because many have joined, mostly in disbelief.
I have never read so much about one player betting those numbers. Excuse me for being skeptical, but I have been tapped for so much less. Regardless, if they are letting you play with little cover at those numbers, it’s the best game in town. There are few here that wouldn’t love to spread 50 to 2 hands of 1000 when the true count is +5.
Keep posting your play and answering posts. Even if you were a troll, it has brought out informative posts, humor, math and skepticism without name calling and disrespect. Either way, you got some balls.
If a new guy posted a question asking for help from the APs here

“Can I spread 50 to 2X1000, what will happen?”

The responses would show you why there is so much negativity to your post. I hope you understand.

Babe

I'm beginning to understand a lot more as I feel my way through this forum

I always appreciate a polite/constructive good post

HockeXpert · Dec 20, 2010

Beldin said:

Pit bosses always care if you win and especially when you win consistently. Sounds to me like your defending your kind. Everyone is nice to losers. Casinos despise winners for a multitude of reasons. Dealers only like winners for the tokes and will turn on you like a cobra.

Beldin said:

If you were playing a $50/1K table why would they go to $200/2k?:whip:

Beldin:

I must give you credit for taking a lot of ****, stirring up a hornets' nest and sticking around but frankly that makes you even more suspect. Why would anyone who has built a $100k br stick around for this bs for one minute?

Zender's courses really aren't that expensive. You can take some of that $100k and learn what you want to know there and save yourself all this grief.:laugh:

Beldin · Dec 20, 2010

HockeXpert said:

Well go ahead and call me a PC then I guess. In case you didnt notice before - I did specifically point out examples of pit bosses that TRIED to get me to play more...and other pit bosses that really just sat and talked with me - granted that is also part of their job - but not as disturbing as a pit boss trying to entice you to play just a small amount. That's like a crack dealer saying - here - try a little....

Dude...this paranoia you have seems really even out of place in this forum. I guess you still haven't really pointed out what I'm trolling for as this supposed "PC" but I guess you can do that when you're just bored and want to see what reactions you get from your own trolling.

The one thing I've always wondered about the people that "teach" blackjack is the same suspicion I get when i hear about the "amazing system" someone supposedly knows to get rich. Bill Zender although recognized as a authority figure still irks me somehow. Playing the game is one thing - but to get people to pay you thinking they can be as good as you somehow strikes a bad chord with me. I guess you have to make a living somehow though......

Beldin · Dec 20, 2010

HockeXpert said:

I feel like sticking around because most people at a casino have no idea how to play......I know there are a few people out there that will actually offer good advice and I can already see theres tons of info on this site that I can actually use.

This casino I'm referring to always has a limit of $1k for max bet. But upon player's request - they can get the limits raised to $200 to 2k. This is probably designed to get even the higher stakes players in their doors.

Now to your other comment about pit bosses. I had an interesting conversation with a pit boss about their revenue (blackjack wise). My initial assumption is that most of the money made on blackjack is made at the smaller tables. The pit boss I talked to actually said high stakes is where they make the most money. Anyone here have any say over that. It would be interesting to confirm this idea and actually prove that there really some pit bosses that are willing to chat openly - even about classes they supposedly take about card counters/cheating techniques.

MeWin$ · Dec 20, 2010

Well

Well its tough to run a sim with all the info you gave but i intuit that 3 x 1000 is within a 100k bank but i dont think 3 x 2000 would be, but it very could under optimum conditions. However with your cover your swings almost certainly are going to be MASSIVE. Maybe someone else can give an sim-educated opinion. If you have a 5% chance (ROR) of losing 100k, then that's a 20% chance of losing half that. You will have 50k swings repeatedly.
Also, you should refine your craft. LEARN TO COUNT THOSE CARDS PERFECTLY. 100k is awesome, keep it.
There is also a chance that the pit has counted you down, and correctly determined that, indeed, you are a losing player.
The most likely scenario, however, is that you are a winning player but you havent exceeded this casinos pain tolerance. If its a big casino you could maybee continue this for a long time, especially if they dont record your win\loss situation. (some casinos dont do this, or do this poorly, i swear)
Also, you should start ratholing some chips. This means to surreptiously pocket smaller denominations to help hide your winnings. There are many posts here on the subject and in books.
Good luck and if u want any more info, dont hesitate.
PS I have spread over 30 to 1 with 2 x 200 max bet for over 500 HUNDRED hours at one particular casino, maybe thats why i believe you.

21gunsalute · Dec 20, 2010

Beldin said:

What's your question? I don't see one. All I see is a bunch of bragging and boasting about how much money you've allegedly thrown around and won despite being such a poor player with an extremely poor attention span, ignorant about the most elementarty of concepts. That isn't bashing, that's the only conclusion anyone could possibly draw from your posts.

And why so sensitive and defensive about the pit critter comments? There's nothing wrong with being a pit critter. Somebody's got to be one.

So what's your purpose for posting here?

MeWin$ · Dec 20, 2010

21gunsalute said:

He defends himself against being called a PC (one) because that would mean he was a spy and (two) because he wants help and needs to be genuine to get genuine responses. I find i very hard to believe that you can not understand why someone would want to defend themselves against being a casino spy. Perhaps youve had enough and are trying to rouse sentiment against this guy.
He has many implied questions (such as how much of his winnings are due to luck) if you read his post, its right in there.
I commend you 21 on your posts and youre defending this site from imposters, but i say let this one go on, and we can all judge for ourselves.

Beldin · Dec 20, 2010

MeWin$ said:

Thanks - after reading his posting I'm really wondering what this guy is after with his posts...

Update for the last night - went in with 1k and won 2k. Mostly played basic strat - did not even attempt to count last night so this was purely luck based. Definitely still noticing pit bosses eyes.

What is the general consesus around the idea of going out multiple hands with a higher TC. Is this generally considered a moral boosting action or is there any actual worth in doing so (when the dealer starts getting multiple 20's in a row?) or this "voodoo strategy"

21gunsalute · Dec 20, 2010

MeWin$ said:

He defends himself against being called a PC (one) because that would mean he was a spy and (two) because he wants help and needs to be genuine to get genuine responses. I find i very hard to believe that you can not understand why someone would want to defend themselves against being a casino spy. Perhaps youve had enough and are trying to rouse sentiment against this guy.
He has many implied questions (such as how much of his winnings are due to luck) if you read his post, its right in there.
I commend you 21 on your posts and youre defending this site from imposters, but i say let this one go on, and we can all judge for ourselves.

Are you his answering service?

Let the man speak for himself. The truth will set us all free.

Beldin · Dec 20, 2010

21gunsalute said:

I'm basically thinking its kinda a waste of time talking with you for now

Beldin · Dec 22, 2010

Went tonight - played for about 1 hour.

Started with 10k - walked away with 22k.

Bet 3 hands 1k each on a +6 count - lost 3 hands - count was down to +2

Followed up with a false bet of 3 hands 1k each - won that hand. Count went to +1

Followed that up with the same hands followed as 6,4 / 10,9 / 10/5 stayed on the 15 - doubled on the 10 - pulled a 4, dealer had a 7 up. Player on the left pulled an 8 hit busted. Dealer had 8 under the 7 - busted.

Soo - if i remember correctly - the index play on 15 was to stay on +3 or more. Concur?

Its weird - I'm noticing the way the deck flows - if i get a high count intially - the count continues to climb on the next set of cards. Dealer is ending up 20 a lot on that 1st set of hands i bet high. I'm assuming this is just the standard variance. Whats the largest count anyone has every seen on a 2 deck initially?

Southpaw · Dec 22, 2010

Beldin said:

No offense at all, Beldin, but this is blatantly incorrect. I generated a full set of indices for Hi-Lo in a representative shoe game and the index for hard 15 v. 7 is +15. Most counters will not even bother to learn indices such as there because they really are quite useless, particularly so in shoe games. They prefer to just always follow basic strategy for plays like these.

Edit: This is the thread where I posted the indices I generated if your interested: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=20292 (8th post)

Best,

SP

mwmb · Dec 22, 2010

Southpaw said:

This change from BS is in the first 18 I.

But i guess this only helps you lose slightly less money then hitting and i guess its not worth the heat?

Southpaw · Dec 22, 2010

mwmb said:

What "Illustrious 18" are you looking at? This is play is clearly not in included in the I18 proposed by Don Schlesinger.

The reason for this is that the play is, for all intents and purposes, useless. Do you know how infrequent at TC of +15 is for a level-one system like Hi-Lo? In a representative six-deck with 5/6 decks being seen (this better than average pen increases the likelihood of seeing high TC's), TC's of +15 or higher were only seen slightly more frequently than 1 in 800 hands. Now take into consideration that hard 15 v. 7 only accounts for 0.363% of hands. Therefore, this index is only used on about 0.045% of hands. Now take into consideration that even when you make the proper departure, it is probably only saving you a fraction of a penny. (Face it, with a TC this high it is likely that the dealer has a 10 or A in the hole anyways).

SP

Beldin · Dec 23, 2010

Southpaw said:

What "Illustrious 18" are you looking at? This is play is clearly not in included in the I18 proposed by Don Schlesinger.

The reason for this is that the play is, for all intents and purposes, useless. Do you know how infrequent at TC of +15 is for a level-one system like Hi-Lo? In a representative six-deck with 5/6 decks being seen (this better than average pen increases the likelihood of seeing high TC's), TC's of +15 or higher were only seen slightly more frequently than 1 in 800 hands. Now take into consideration that hard 15 v. 7 only accounts for 0.363% of hands. Therefore, this index is only used on about 0.045% of hands. Now take into consideration that even when you make the proper departure, it is probably only saving you a fraction of a penny. (Face it, with a TC this high it is likely that the dealer has a 10 or A in the hole anyways).

SP

So if thats the case - surrender?

Beldin · Dec 23, 2010

Southpaw said:

K - now I think I figured out your index system - you're basically showing the cusp of when its not profitable to when its profitable - but as your tables are showing - a lot of the index plays are pretty minor

Can you run some simulations on when to take insurance? the book I read said + 4 count to take insurance (supposedly the most important index play)

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