Monster rebound

[pit15]

and for the record, I'd advocate a player card for almost anyone..

for ploppies: no reason not to
for red chippers: almost a necessity to keep it going, plus low risk of back offs to begin with.
green chippers: good offers too good to pass up
black and beyond: too suspicious to play in the high limit pit as a refusal

And the offers can actually help you limit your exposure if you want to go that route instead of increasing your EV with them

If you're a red chipper.. a free buffet means you can skip an hour of play
For greens, a grand or two in match plays every month means you can skip a few shifts or cut every shift short by some amount

 

[kewljason]

Well again, getting a new player's card is easy, the employees remembering you after a back off is the PITA part.

For green / black action the EV from offers is substantial. The mailers you get in a month can be worth days worth of EV for you now, not to mention not paying a cent for anything ever in a casino.

This coming weekend in AC I got about a grand in match plays, and I'm willing to bet you put in far more action then I do (since I spend a lot of time scouting, you spend most of your time actually playing).

Understood pit, and appreciate the advice. I also spend quite a bit of time scouting, plus I play very, very short sessions, hit-and-run, moving alot in an attempt to minimize backoffs. This style is not beneficial to receiving top offers, but as I stated, I have recently started playing rated more to get a feel for things.

 

[pit15]

Understood pit, and appreciate the advice. I also spend quite a bit of time scouting, plus I play very, very short sessions, hit-and-run, moving alot in an attempt to minimize backoffs. This style is not beneficial to receiving top offers, but as I stated, I have recently started playing rated more to get a feel for things.

Ahh, ok. I thought you sat and played for a while. Your scouting/playing ratio is still probably much better then mine though, I probably spend 4 hours scouting for every hour at the table

My sessions are usually an entire shift.

How short is short though? Even half hour sessions at an average bet of like 200 bucks will net you good offers, and if you're in vegas, even if you're getting small offers, you can get them from 30 different places. Even a lousy $20 match play every week is 300 bucks in EV if you get 30 of them

 

[Sharky]

....I probably spend 4 hours scouting for every hour at the table

My sessions are usually an entire shift.
...

YIKES!@#!@$#@!$

32 hrs scouting for 8 hrs of play....that also reduces your hourly ev by 4...so if your hours ev is $80, you only make $16/hr worked?

pit, you are kidding us, right?

 

[pit15]

YIKES!@#!@$#@!$

32 hrs scouting for 8 hrs of play....that also reduces your hourly ev by 4...so if your hours ev is $80, you only make $16/hr worked?

pit, you are kidding us, right?

my hourly ev at the table is more like 200 - 400 / hour

 

[kewljason]

Ahh, ok. I thought you sat and played for a while. Your scouting/playing ratio is still probably much better then mine though, I probably spend 4 hours scouting for every hour at the table

My sessions are usually an entire shift.

How short is short though? Even half hour sessions at an average bet of like 200 bucks will net you good offers, and if you're in vegas, even if you're getting small offers, you can get them from 30 different places. Even a lousy $20 match play every week is 300 bucks in EV if you get 30 of them

Short is exit at the shuffle after first high count. I never let them see me reduce my wager. This can be as little as one shoe (or less if the count tanks quickly) to as long as 3 shoes or 45 minutes if the count has remained flat. Usually will move on after 3 shoes no matter what.

And yes, you are correct, my scouting ratio is nothing like yours. lol I scout as I go. I walk up and down the strip multiple times each week. I walk through places just to look and check things out regularly. Conditions are too fluid not to do so. Even a couple days after CBJN come out, conditions can be totally different. Gotta keep an eye open.

 

[pit15]

Short is exit at the shuffle after first high count. I never let them see me reduce my wager. This can be as little as one shoe (or less if the count tanks quickly) to as long as 3 shoes or 45 minutes if the count has remained flat. Usually will move on after 3 shoes no matter what.

And yes, you are correct, my scouting ratio is nothing like yours. lol I scout as I go. I walk up and down the strip multiple times each week. I walk through places just to look and check things out regularly. Conditions are too fluid not to do so. Even a couple days after CBJN come out, conditions can be totally different. Gotta keep an eye open.

That's not a terrible idea. It's not unusual for ploppies to start low and "work their way up". In that case there's a good chance you only get rated for your min bet (though not always, sometimes if the session's short they'll rate you at your last bet made, or somewhere in between your first bet and last), but even still, if you're playing at 30 different places a lot of crappy match plays add up into a good one, and it's places you're going to anyway to play so it's free $ (I often go out of my way to collect offers, but I usually do it while scouting or after a shift that I strike out on). Try it out at a few joints and see what kind of offers you get in 3 months, then base your decision on that.

Yeah.. for my type of play a lot of scouting is unfortunately mandatory.

 

[zengrifter]

Short is exit at the shuffle after first high count. I never let them see me reduce my wager.

I might (occasionally) leave the max bet(s) out off the top and if win keep placing them until lost.
No real drain there. zg

 

[zengrifter]

Take heed, Kewl one >>

[Card counting is] the equivalent of big game hunting armed with a rubber band and a paper clip, and I don't care what kind of rubber band you are using. Even those nifty red ones.

 

[pit15]

I might (occasionally) leave the max bet(s) out off the top and if win keep placing them until lost.
No real drain there. zg

Actually you're losing the house edge on every bet, so that is a pretty big drain.

Not to mention the variance.

 

[zengrifter]

Actually you're losing the house edge on every bet, so that is a pretty big drain.

About a dollar and a half, I calc? You "EV 200-400 per hour" and that is a
"big drain" by your standard, done infrequently after a hot max-bets shoe? zg

 

[creeping panther]

Composure-Emotions

Well KJ, I do find it interesting that you saw fit to mention that you were out of control emotionally, and "Giddy as a child at Christmas",,,,I think you made a good choice to not play any more that day.

I will tell you a little story, a true one. Two of the deadliest men of the old West, gunslingers and fighters, were Wyatt Earp and Bill Hitchcock, neither were even close to having the quickest draw, but both had steel control of their emotions, and were dead on accurate, never rattled, and through life kept these virtue's right up to the end. Both, without fail, never spoke or bragged of their exploits, which were truly legendary. Their game faces and the aura they projected were never forgotten by those who knew them, or were in their presence.

I think you should remember these two superlative men when you begin to lose your emotions, pattern yourself after them, because many here look up to you as a modern day Earp, or Hitchcock, they live vicariously through your exploits, and to have you lose your cool emotionally, well, that is not how you are envisoned by many,,,,,stay frosty.

CP

 

[zengrifter]

Bill Hitchcock, had steel control of emotions, and dead on accurate, never rattled, and through life kept these virtue's right up to the end.

Until he was dealt Aces and Eights, that is. zg

 

[kewljason]

Well Mr CP, I am not trying to be Earp or Hitchcock...lol, just doing my own thing and still learning and experiencing new situations along the way. I don't know about all that 'people living precariously through me' stuff. I certainly hope not for their sake as they will find I live a pretty modest and dull life.

As for having difficulty composing myself after such an extraordinary event, that both surprised me and disappointed me as well. Something I can hopefully improve upon in the future.

 

[nottooshabby]

Well Mr CP, I am not trying to be Earp or Hitchcock...lol, just doing my own thing and still learning and experiencing new situations along the way. I don't know about all that 'people living precariously through me' stuff. I certainly hope not for their sake as they will find I live a pretty modest and dull life.

As for having difficulty composing myself after such an extraordinary event, that both surprised me and disappointed me as well. Something I can hopefully improve upon in the future.

I think CP meant to say "live vicariously"

Well done, Jason, strong work!

 

[pit15]

About a dollar and a half, I calc? You "EV 200-400 per hour" and that is a
"big drain" by your standard, done infrequently after a hot max-bets shoe? zg

Well if you leave it up until you lose a bet, it's more like $3 every time since on average it'll be up for around 2 hands. Do this a few hundred times a year and that's a grand, plus the variance.

Personally, I'm just not comfortable putting up money (especially big money) when I'm at a disadvantage, it makes me feel uneasy (and very much so).

I'll leave a game after 1 hand if I realize it's no good because the 30 - 50 cents vig / hand is too much to handle once I realize that this game has no chance of being anything other then a -3.37% game. I've adjusted how I evaluate games because of this (eg. like buying in for only 100 or 200. Buying in for 500, playing 1 hand, then leaving can draw some heat whereas doing that with 100 is something plops do on a regular basis)

Btw, my average EV around 6 months ago was only $50 / hour. I've stepped up both my skill level and bet size a lot since then (and also increased the threshold for how strong of a game I want before I'll play it).

 

[Sharky]

...like buying in for only 100 or 200...

right pit, you buy in for $100-$200 and have an hourly ev of $200-$400..um humm and i am Santa Claus...ho ho ho!!!!

i was born at night, but not last night...you, my friend, have lost any 'street creed' you may have thought you garnished...phony!

 

[peaegg]

zg's camouflage bet

Well if you leave it up until you lose a bet, it's more like $3 every time since on average it'll be up for around 2 hands. Do this a few hundred times a year and that's a grand, plus the variance.

Personally, I'm just not comfortable putting up money (especially big money) when I'm at a disadvantage, it makes me feel uneasy (and very much so).

I'll leave a game after 1 hand if I realize it's no good because the 30 - 50 cents vig / hand is too much to handle once I realize that this game has no chance of being anything other then a -3.37% game. I've adjusted how I evaluate games because of this (eg. like buying in for only 100 or 200. Buying in for 500, playing 1 hand, then leaving can draw some heat whereas doing that with 100 is something plops do on a regular basis)

Btw, my average EV around 6 months ago was only $50 / hour. I've stepped up both my skill level and bet size a lot since then (and also increased the threshold for how strong of a game I want before I'll play it).

Pit, I think what zg meant was to keep the maximum bet out there after a hot shoe, until he has lost a hand. I agree the house has advantage. If it is 0.5%, every $100 zg will loss 50 cents. That's not too much, considering how often one would experience a hot shoe. He didn't say that he will start every new shoe with a max bet, or at a new buy in. I think this is not a bad strategy to try, if one plays rated and looks for longevity. No pain, no gain.

 

[zengrifter]

Well if you leave it up until you lose a bet, it's more like $3 every time since on average it'll be up for around 2 hands. Do this a few hundred times a year and that's a grand, plus the variance.

Stop it with "plus the variance" - that's a non-sequitur - there is always variance.
A grand per year is cheap cover for someone like you earning $300/hr.

I've stepped up both my skill level and bet size a lot since then (and also increased the threshold for how strong of a game I want before I'll play it).

I'll leave a game after 1 hand if I realize it's no good because the 30 - 50 cents vig / hand is too much to handle once I realize that this game has no chance of being anything other then a -3.37% game.

Say what? Come again? zg

 

[zengrifter]

right pit, you buy in for $100-$200 and have an hourly ev of $200-$400..um humm and i am Santa Claus...ho ho ho!!!!

i was born at night, but not last night...you, my friend, have lost any 'street creed' you may have thought you garnished!

You KNOW if he's been bad or good, Sharky Claus! z:laugh:g