Monster rebound
- Thread starter kewljason
- Start date
creeping panther said:
Well KJ, I do find it interesting that you saw fit to mention that you were out of control emotionally, and "Giddy as a child at Christmas",,,,I think you made a good choice to not play any more that day.
I will tell you a little story, a true one. Two of the deadliest men of the old West, gunslingers and fighters, were Wyatt Earp and Bill Hitchcock, neither were even close to having the quickest draw, but both had steel control of their emotions, and were dead on accurate, never rattled, and through life kept these virtue's right up to the end. Both, without fail, never spoke or bragged of their exploits, which were truly legendary. Their game faces and the aura they projected were never forgotten by those who knew them, or were in their presence.
I think you should remember these two superlative men when you begin to lose your emotions, pattern yourself after them, because to many here they look up to you as a modern day Earp, or Hitchcock, they live precariously through your exploits, and to have you lose your cool emotionally, well, that is not how you are envisoned by many,,,,,stay frosty.
CP
I will tell you a little story, a true one. Two of the deadliest men of the old West, gunslingers and fighters, were Wyatt Earp and Bill Hitchcock, neither were even close to having the quickest draw, but both had steel control of their emotions, and were dead on accurate, never rattled, and through life kept these virtue's right up to the end. Both, without fail, never spoke or bragged of their exploits, which were truly legendary. Their game faces and the aura they projected were never forgotten by those who knew them, or were in their presence.
I think you should remember these two superlative men when you begin to lose your emotions, pattern yourself after them, because to many here they look up to you as a modern day Earp, or Hitchcock, they live precariously through your exploits, and to have you lose your cool emotionally, well, that is not how you are envisoned by many,,,,,stay frosty.
CP
Really, we all have emotions and KJ didn't say anything about acting out at the table with them, did he? You're allowed to feel any emotion you want, just don't let it be reflected in your betting or your play.
By his choice of avatars, I don't think it unlikely that he celebrated with the use of a certain substance, and that's not my idea of a good time but a legitimate way to relax, for many. My vice is binge eating, and if I had a session like that I'd probably be in the nearest seafood buffet scaring everyone to death with a few pounds of shellfish.
One of my objections to Las Vegas (especially for rookies) is all the opportunity to get into trouble there, between the dope and the whores and the liquor that flows like water, amplified by the high crime rate that can separate you from your bankroll violently. I know a lot of the younger guys like some recreation when they're out on a mission- not me though, if I'm not at the table I'm eating or sleeping. Seriously- the stress of AP is going to make anybody with an "issue" more likely to have a problem, and whatever your disease is, it's available in Vegas.
Congratulations to KJ, and good job keeping control of yourself. :1st:
Umm, those are for evaluating a game, that counts as part of my scouting time, did you read the post or not?
I'll quote: "I've adjusted how I evaluate games because of this"
Buying in big to a game that you don't even know is playable is dumb, and it's an amateur mistake I've made and learned from.
If I can't get a read I leave the game, if I do then I start upping my bet and buy in for more. As for the strength of game thing.. When I first started playing I wanted at least a 1% edge (so for OCP that would mean around an 80% read), now I generally don't play games under 2% (so that's OCP with at least a 90% read with some paints, or something stronger then OCP)
I'll quote: "I've adjusted how I evaluate games because of this"
Buying in big to a game that you don't even know is playable is dumb, and it's an amateur mistake I've made and learned from.
If I can't get a read I leave the game, if I do then I start upping my bet and buy in for more. As for the strength of game thing.. When I first started playing I wanted at least a 1% edge (so for OCP that would mean around an 80% read), now I generally don't play games under 2% (so that's OCP with at least a 90% read with some paints, or something stronger then OCP)
Well I used to have the same opinion as you on comps. But for myself this only worked for a short time. Once you move from red to green things change.
Even on the strip if your spreading 1- 16 in in quarters your talking about a top bet thats 400 dollars. Not really chump change even in todays world. Your going to get noticed.I've found that playing rated at some places you can get away with this for a long time. Maybe 50 plus hours. Some places you will only last for 15 to 20 minutes. But eventually you'll get busted. And if you camp out at the tables for hours on end you'll get popped sooner than later.
For the last few months I have avoided getting rated. The comps are nice while they last but the also come with a hidden cost.
Even on the strip if your spreading 1- 16 in in quarters your talking about a top bet thats 400 dollars. Not really chump change even in todays world. Your going to get noticed.I've found that playing rated at some places you can get away with this for a long time. Maybe 50 plus hours. Some places you will only last for 15 to 20 minutes. But eventually you'll get busted. And if you camp out at the tables for hours on end you'll get popped sooner than later.
For the last few months I have avoided getting rated. The comps are nice while they last but the also come with a hidden cost.
Rarely count, don't have the bankroll or skill to make it worthwhile.
Most of my counting is for loss plays.
Backcount, wong in, leave while ratholing $100 - $300.
Not very effective though, my lifetime win just cracked $10K on the card, which got me denied a comp when I asked a host (and he said straight up that's the reason he can't do it)
Most of my counting is for loss plays.
Backcount, wong in, leave while ratholing $100 - $300.
Not very effective though, my lifetime win just cracked $10K on the card, which got me denied a comp when I asked a host (and he said straight up that's the reason he can't do it)
Pit15, what is the basis for your recommendation?
Personal experience? Vicarious? Pure speculation?
They keep track of your winnings/losings.
The cumulative winnings will without a doubt alert the security.
I have played in all the high-limit rooms in NJ, PA, & CT (and of course Las Vegas).
Yes, the pit sometimes does get suspicious when you play anonymously,
which is why you need an Oscar winning act.
The key is to move around a lot and keep track of shifts changes of the pit crew.
If you’re ever identified as an AP with a players card, you won’t know it, but the
pit crew will when they swipe your card. You make it easier for them.
Personal experience? Vicarious? Pure speculation?
They keep track of your winnings/losings.
The cumulative winnings will without a doubt alert the security.
I have played in all the high-limit rooms in NJ, PA, & CT (and of course Las Vegas).
Yes, the pit sometimes does get suspicious when you play anonymously,
which is why you need an Oscar winning act.
The key is to move around a lot and keep track of shifts changes of the pit crew.
If you’re ever identified as an AP with a players card, you won’t know it, but the
pit crew will when they swipe your card. You make it easier for them.
Last edited:
The only extra thing I lost for playing rated when I got backed off is the ability to play rated (on that card). So I didn't lose anything compared to not playing rated ever and getting backed off. I'm still ****ed on that shift regardless.
My backoffs had nothing to do with my card.. yes, a huge lifetime win on your card can get you backed off, but that's your responsibility to know where you are on each card and either figure out a way to show some losses before you hit the store's limit (again.. your responsibility to figure out what that is or take an educated guess at what it is.. for a place like bellagio, caesars, or borgata that would be like 50 grand. if it's some dump where the table max is 25 bucks then you should probably not bother getting a card) or stop using the card.
I keep track of every play, whether i played as a refusal or rated, and if playing rated I note not only my win/loss, but how much I ratholed and which card I used.
My backoffs had nothing to do with my card.. yes, a huge lifetime win on your card can get you backed off, but that's your responsibility to know where you are on each card and either figure out a way to show some losses before you hit the store's limit (again.. your responsibility to figure out what that is or take an educated guess at what it is.. for a place like bellagio, caesars, or borgata that would be like 50 grand. if it's some dump where the table max is 25 bucks then you should probably not bother getting a card) or stop using the card.
I keep track of every play, whether i played as a refusal or rated, and if playing rated I note not only my win/loss, but how much I ratholed and which card I used.
I find that I spend much more time scouting than playing.
I guess maybe it reduces your hourly ev. but for me when I take a trip to Vegas my entire time is devoted playing and looking for the next good game. But scouting is huge part of any trip. I just look at my totals when I get home and see how it turned out dollar wise at that point.
I guess maybe it reduces your hourly ev. but for me when I take a trip to Vegas my entire time is devoted playing and looking for the next good game. But scouting is huge part of any trip. I just look at my totals when I get home and see how it turned out dollar wise at that point.
Personal experience and others who I know.
As I stated in my previous post, lifetime win is something that's your responsibility to keep track of and manipulate. If you're identified as an AP because of your players card you sure as hell will know about it, you'll be backed off very quickly.
I have personally played rated and as a refusal with the same pit crews, and a lot of times they are noticeably more comfortable (and friendly as well) with the action when I hand over a premium player card versus playing as some random guy coming in betting big in a way most people don't play. (one time the PC became unfriendly, had a discussion in the pit and made a call upstairs as soon as I refused the player card. And I overheard some conversation that involved the word "refusal" several times.) And from conversations that I've overheard in the pit, a refusal winning big means more BS paperwork/reports and more concern then a rated player winning big.
As I stated in my previous post, lifetime win is something that's your responsibility to keep track of and manipulate. If you're identified as an AP because of your players card you sure as hell will know about it, you'll be backed off very quickly.
I have personally played rated and as a refusal with the same pit crews, and a lot of times they are noticeably more comfortable (and friendly as well) with the action when I hand over a premium player card versus playing as some random guy coming in betting big in a way most people don't play. (one time the PC became unfriendly, had a discussion in the pit and made a call upstairs as soon as I refused the player card. And I overheard some conversation that involved the word "refusal" several times.) And from conversations that I've overheard in the pit, a refusal winning big means more BS paperwork/reports and more concern then a rated player winning big.
Pit15, one time at Borgata in Atlantic City, I saw a guy get
half-shoed. The dealer placed the cut card smack in the middle
of the shoe. I walked up to the table but didn’t sit down for
obvious reasons.
I asked the dealer why he put the cut card in the middle, and he
simply said that he was told to do so.
The player said that the reason is because they think that he’s a
card counter. He said that it happened really quickly as soon as
he sat down. I asked him, how do they know? He said that
Borgata has facial recognition system. And then I noticed the
players ratings card under his stack of green chips.
He wasn’t identified by the FRS. The pit was alerted when they
swiped his players card, which is why he was half shoed so quickly.
The player sat and continued to play.
half-shoed. The dealer placed the cut card smack in the middle
of the shoe. I walked up to the table but didn’t sit down for
obvious reasons.
I asked the dealer why he put the cut card in the middle, and he
simply said that he was told to do so.
The player said that the reason is because they think that he’s a
card counter. He said that it happened really quickly as soon as
he sat down. I asked him, how do they know? He said that
Borgata has facial recognition system. And then I noticed the
players ratings card under his stack of green chips.
He wasn’t identified by the FRS. The pit was alerted when they
swiped his players card, which is why he was half shoed so quickly.
The player sat and continued to play.
Pit15, yes, you’re responsible for keeping track of your own wins/losses. We all do that. Who said otherwise? What’s your point?
Manipulate? They keep track of purple and orange chips, so you can’t mouse them. The floor supervisor does a chip tray check on a regular basis, and documents them. I really doubt that you play black/purple in high-limit rooms. Maybe you did once or twice, but you’re surely not a regular.
When do I hear the word “refusal”? When the floor supervisor goes on a break. Before going on a break for 20 min, he/she has to tell the guy coming on what’s going on. This guy plays black. This guy this. That guy that. This guy was a refusal. Etc.
Some places will allow low-ballers with mediocre skills to continue to play after being identified.
Manipulate? They keep track of purple and orange chips, so you can’t mouse them. The floor supervisor does a chip tray check on a regular basis, and documents them. I really doubt that you play black/purple in high-limit rooms. Maybe you did once or twice, but you’re surely not a regular.
When do I hear the word “refusal”? When the floor supervisor goes on a break. Before going on a break for 20 min, he/she has to tell the guy coming on what’s going on. This guy plays black. This guy this. That guy that. This guy was a refusal. Etc.
Some places will allow low-ballers with mediocre skills to continue to play after being identified.
Pit15, now I know that you don’t play in high-limit rooms. LOL!
You can easily rack up $50k in two months. Easily,...
If you truly played black/purple on a regular basis, then you would know that.
I regularly win $15k or more at one place, and then walk over to the next casino and lose $10k.
The first casino doesn’t know what I lose in the next casino.
You can easily rack up $50k in two months. Easily,...
If you truly played black/purple on a regular basis, then you would know that.
I regularly win $15k or more at one place, and then walk over to the next casino and lose $10k.
The first casino doesn’t know what I lose in the next casino.
Well the context of it this time made it pretty clear that the PC was suspicious because of not one, but 2 players refusing cards (that was a mistake).
I rathole green. Black on the rare occasion that someone else is at my table betting black and walks with a bunch. Followed up with telling the PC "yeah, he walked with a ton of black, don't you hate it when people don't color?" Then after I slipped a few in my pocket help the PC out by counting what I got left for them. Every time they say thanks because I stack them neatly to give them a quicker count so they can rush back to the podium to watch TV or twiddle their thumbs.
One thing I've learned is PCs could give a damn who the chips are credited to, as long as they're credited to somebody, and unless it's dead obvious you're pulling one over on them (eg. you're the only guy at the table with black and you rathole 40 of them like an idiot). Then they get pissed off at you because they have to get a fill.
I generally play light black. I play anywhere from 2 hands of 75 to 2 hands of 200 depending on how strong of a game I have and other factors. And yes.. I don't play high limit rooms.. name 1 casino with carnival games in a high limit room
I rathole green. Black on the rare occasion that someone else is at my table betting black and walks with a bunch. Followed up with telling the PC "yeah, he walked with a ton of black, don't you hate it when people don't color?" Then after I slipped a few in my pocket help the PC out by counting what I got left for them. Every time they say thanks because I stack them neatly to give them a quicker count so they can rush back to the podium to watch TV or twiddle their thumbs.
One thing I've learned is PCs could give a damn who the chips are credited to, as long as they're credited to somebody, and unless it's dead obvious you're pulling one over on them (eg. you're the only guy at the table with black and you rathole 40 of them like an idiot). Then they get pissed off at you because they have to get a fill.
I generally play light black. I play anywhere from 2 hands of 75 to 2 hands of 200 depending on how strong of a game I have and other factors. And yes.. I don't play high limit rooms.. name 1 casino with carnival games in a high limit room
Last edited:
Am
Let us be clear on the "Throw Down" statement I have used on occasion. That statement is in relation to only blatant insults and disrespect shown to you at the table or on the casino floor by another, and it could be about other things besides your play. If you desire to be trampled upon then enjoy, sit there and take it,,,, or command respect, as a true man with some Ballz would, and stand up to the bully .
AS to KJ and his statement, it was a totally different situation, as he comments about totally losing it emotionally from a big win with no other external accelerators. (And he did the right thing by taking the day off.) Let us not confuse the two situations.
CP
Let us be clear on the "Throw Down" statement I have used on occasion. That statement is in relation to only blatant insults and disrespect shown to you at the table or on the casino floor by another, and it could be about other things besides your play. If you desire to be trampled upon then enjoy, sit there and take it,,,,
or command respect, as a true man with some Ballz would, and stand up to the bully .AS to KJ and his statement, it was a totally different situation, as he comments about totally losing it emotionally from a big win with no other external accelerators. (And he did the right thing by taking the day off.) Let us not confuse the two situations.
CP
