evansd66
New Member
As a preliminary for the chat session this Saturday, I've created a poll. By answering this question, you can help me with my research on risk intelligence and expert gamblers. Thanks, Dylan. www.dylan.org.uk
Poll - record keeping
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SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
Yes I do. I even started keeping track of odd things like amounts made from dealer errors, money or chips found in the casino and tips I've received from other players.
I keep detailed logs including a seperate tab for comps. Specifically comps that can be translated into cash, ie. can be used to buy something i would need to buy otherwise.
by this i mean, if i get comped rooms i keep track of those but i dont factor those into EV. If i didnt get a free room, i wouldnt pay to stay. I dont keep track of comp'd drinks since if they werent free i wouldnt be drinking them.
I do keep track of Comp dollars that can be used to buy dinner, gas cards, etc as those are necessary expenses.
by this i mean, if i get comped rooms i keep track of those but i dont factor those into EV. If i didnt get a free room, i wouldnt pay to stay. I dont keep track of comp'd drinks since if they werent free i wouldnt be drinking them.
I do keep track of Comp dollars that can be used to buy dinner, gas cards, etc as those are necessary expenses.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
record keeping
i chose Yes, I know roughly how much I've made or lost in the poll.
i do keep written records, however the question becomes, how accurate am i?
the idea of keeping records is a noble one, the record keeper and the analyzer of records is another question.
then there are practical obstacles, limitations with respect to keeping records.
the poll is also with respect to keeping records this year.
so the question becomes, what about years past or what about the future?
what if you want to change how you keep records?
what parameters are involved, what do they mean and do you really understand how to properly use the math and interpret it?
then there are all kinds of 'other' records one can tinker with.
but yeah, keeping records, a beacon of sorts, illuminating aspects of where we've been, where we are, where we want to go.
edit: like, what would one be interested in when asking about something related to 'risk intelligence'?
the question of record keeping when you think about it stretches way back in humane history, right back to cave art, lol.
the act of keeping records, i should imagine is a 'wisdom' passed down amongst generations through out the millennium.
just i know my parents drove the idea of "write it down" and "know what your spending" sort of idea's into my head.
i should imagine their parents did the same and so on.
four years of records in the image below....
i chose Yes, I know roughly how much I've made or lost in the poll.
i do keep written records, however the question becomes, how accurate am i?
the idea of keeping records is a noble one, the record keeper and the analyzer of records is another question.
then there are practical obstacles, limitations with respect to keeping records.
the poll is also with respect to keeping records this year.
so the question becomes, what about years past or what about the future?
what if you want to change how you keep records?
what parameters are involved, what do they mean and do you really understand how to properly use the math and interpret it?
then there are all kinds of 'other' records one can tinker with.
but yeah, keeping records, a beacon of sorts, illuminating aspects of where we've been, where we are, where we want to go.
edit: like, what would one be interested in when asking about something related to 'risk intelligence'?
the question of record keeping when you think about it stretches way back in humane history, right back to cave art, lol.
the act of keeping records, i should imagine is a 'wisdom' passed down amongst generations through out the millennium.
just i know my parents drove the idea of "write it down" and "know what your spending" sort of idea's into my head.
i should imagine their parents did the same and so on.
four years of records in the image below....
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i voted: Yes, I know exactly.
IMHO, it is essential to keep track of this if you are serious about this.
I track:
1.Session No
2.Venue
3. Start Time
4. End Time
5. Total Playing time
6. actual result ($)
7. # of shoes played
8. # of shoes exited
9. # of players at table
10. ROR%
11. average penetration level.
I also track (using analysis from QFIT's CVD):
12. EV for the session/shoe (taking into account any promotions)
13. SD for session/shoe
14. # of hands played.
Finally I track any relevant expenses: travel, accomodation etc
Thus for each month I can calculate my total EV, my actual result, an assess how far (how many SD's) i was from my actual result.
i think what systemTrader tracks is also a good idea!!
i am finding that the longer i play, the more things i track.
Good luck,
Matt
IMHO, it is essential to keep track of this if you are serious about this.
I track:
1.Session No
2.Venue
3. Start Time
4. End Time
5. Total Playing time
6. actual result ($)
7. # of shoes played
8. # of shoes exited
9. # of players at table
10. ROR%
11. average penetration level.
I also track (using analysis from QFIT's CVD):
12. EV for the session/shoe (taking into account any promotions)
13. SD for session/shoe
14. # of hands played.
Finally I track any relevant expenses: travel, accomodation etc
Thus for each month I can calculate my total EV, my actual result, an assess how far (how many SD's) i was from my actual result.
i think what systemTrader tracks is also a good idea!!
i am finding that the longer i play, the more things i track.
Good luck,
Matt
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Do you play a Martingale or something? Why do you have so many small, similarly-sized wins relative to large one-time losses?
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
no Martingale, lol.
probably the small similarly sized wins are a result of my quitting when ahead, some goal amount. it normally doesn't take much play to reach a small goal.
but sometimes if i don't make it i'll end up losing an entire trip roll.
that's probably what your seeing. then some of the larger loss's you see might have been a more than one day trip.
then also since that high water mark, lol, where i haven't been able to get back up to, well that's where i increased my spread from 1-8 to 1-10. wouldn't you know that's when i have a big losing streak.
then shortly there after i completely revised how i play, uhmm, no longer orthodox counting stuff. a whole new philosophy of play, sort of thing (might as well say voodoo, i became more recreational minded), but not progression betting.
but really to be completely up front about that graph, it's the greatest part blackjack, but, well, lol, a small amount of craps, roulette, video poker, even slots, my wife and i playing together, and all kinds of small promotional moneys, sort of thing.
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My vote not recorded.
After four or five years of recreationally counting and I'm up w/o records.
I just started recording results a couple months ago. Half my previous income available for the last year so not able to play much. Figures I'd get more serious about it, just as the opportunity to play shrinks. Oh well.
Someone said they included chips found. Might not be to your advantage, slot walking, or finding chips can be considered theft in some casino's and the rules may not have to be apparently posted
Slightly on the downside for my 25hrs recorded. Strangely enough this is reassuring to me. Especially when I think about what the ploppies might be at after 25hrs of solid play! :cool2:
Good Cards
After four or five years of recreationally counting and I'm up w/o records.
I just started recording results a couple months ago. Half my previous income available for the last year so not able to play much. Figures I'd get more serious about it, just as the opportunity to play shrinks. Oh well.
Someone said they included chips found. Might not be to your advantage, slot walking, or finding chips can be considered theft in some casino's and the rules may not have to be apparently posted
Slightly on the downside for my 25hrs recorded. Strangely enough this is reassuring to me. Especially when I think about what the ploppies might be at after 25hrs of solid play! :cool2:
Good Cards
Here's a question for you ST!
So in calculating your session EV do you incorporate the items such as dealer errors etc. say your EV for a particular session (incorporating all your game variables) was $60. But within that session you had a $15 dealer error and at one point you managed to cut to an ace which gave you an expected return of $10 for that hand - does your session EV then become 60+15+10?
I am thinking that i should start tracking items like this. In a session a few days ago i had four dealer errors in my favor and the errors equated to about 8 betting units!
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
I incorporate the error into the total money won. So if I make the $60 dollars and $15 came from the error the 15 is included in calculating the EV. I don't add it on top. I keep a separate column to calculate the errors out of curiosity to see how much I've made from them. I just wish I had done it from the start of my playing years ago. Plus who knows how many errors there has been where a dealer has scooped one of my bets. I'd like to think there aren't any but I will never know. I have now made thousands off of errors and my biggest one was $300 dollars. Everyone at the table noticed but no one said a word luckily. Here's a good one just last week I got paid even money on a 20 vs a dealer ace. I scooped that money so quick off the table. And yes the dealer got the blackjack.
Well, you know what I'm gonna say lol.
I'd keep track of it on the side for sure, why not, but not delude myself 100 hours later, that my roll is what it is becasue of dealer errors.
Like I'd do that for tips. Or paying waitresses with chips.
I just want to be able to compare my results to the sim I am playing to and measure my skills or luck that way and not think "Lady Luck" has happened to shine upon me because a dealer gave me an extra $300 in a shoe by mistake or becasue I got pissed and bet way more than I was supposed to becasue I was pissed but happened to win.
Did your sim include dealer errors, Ace steering, or crazy wins from other games like slots or roulette as sometimes, not you per se, seems to sometimes be included in "card-counting" wins.
Keep it pure