16 vs. 10 stand at 0?

2

21Menace

Well-Known Member
I'm learning the bs variations in wong's book Professional Blackjack and am confused about one of the variations. I'm learning H17 6 deck, das. The chart in the book says stand on 16 vs 10 when the count is 0 or higher. Then why does bs say to hit 16 against 10? If you stand at 0 wouldn't bs say stand since the count will usually be around 0?
 
daaaaveey said:
I'm learning the bs variations in wong's book Professional Blackjack and am confused about one of the variations. I'm learning H17 6 deck, das. The chart in the book says stand on 16 vs 10 when the count is 0 or higher. Then why does bs say to hit 16 against 10? If you stand at 0 wouldn't bs say stand since the count will usually be around 0?
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Im not entirely sure, but I would assume that the ACTUAL index for 16vX to be something like TC +0.1. Its an extremely close play in which hitting is barely better than standing for BS.
 
The actual index for Standing with 16 vs. X in a H17 game is slightly LOWER than it is in a S17 game, since the dealer's bust percentage is a little higher.
 
FLASH1296 said:
The actual index for Standing with 16 vs. X in a H17 game is slightly LOWER than it is in a S17 game, since the dealer's bust percentage is a little higher.
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This is incorrect. For a dealer up card of 7,8,9,T it doesn't matter if dealer hits or stands on soft 17 because soft 17 is not possible starting with those up cards.
 
Basic strategy 16vT is a hit because it takes into account the dealers card and the average composition of your hand. (16 can be T6, or 97, or T24, or 934, etc.). The average true count upon encountering a 16vT, when starting at 0, is <0. Therefore, it is a basic strategy hit.
 
sabre said:
Basic strategy 16vT is a hit because it takes into account the dealers card and the average composition of your hand. (16 can be T6, or 97, or T24, or 934, etc.). The average true count upon encountering a 16vT, when starting at 0, is <0. Therefore, it is a basic strategy hit.
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That is an EXCELLENT answer!
 
That makes perfect sense. Thanks. How many indices do you guys know? I'm planning on just learning everything between -1 and 6 like wong says.
 
I have learned 200 + index numbers to cover single and multi-decks, DHS17 and DSS17, DAS and No DAS, Insurance, Betting, Side bets, Surrender, and I'm sure there are more that I am leaving out. Most are embedded into my brain, common knowledge or you won't ever have to pull up (remember) the index numbers becasue they are either so high or so low.

My last 9 months have consisted of studyig, practicing and learning. :whip:
I have been using my counting and AP skills in real life at various casinos for about a month. It's amazing to look back as I went from a bs player to learning the counting system, indeces and AP as I fill-in my win/loss spreadsheet all while my bankroll gradually increases. Now I both laugh :laugh:and cringe :eek:at the ploppies...I was formally one of them!
 
I know eight indices, and even at that, one of them comes up so rarely, I'm not sure I ever used in in a casino.
 
300 total. but like Shad said.. some you rarely see. I play some single and a lot of DD. If your wonging other multideck games.. you don't have to know as many. (mostly the negative ones) :)
 
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_K_C_,

You said: "This is incorrect. For a dealer up card of 7,8,9,T it doesn't matter if dealer hits or stands on soft 17 because soft 17 is not possible starting with those up cards."

That is silly. Has it escaped your notice that a dealer can flip over a high card to show a low card and then add one or more low cards to create a SOFT 17 ?

:whip:
 
Can you give an example of a soft total of 17 that contains a 7 (or higher) and an ace? What low card can the dealer have in the hole that will make a soft 17 possible with an upcard of 7-T?

-Sonny-
 
Sonny,

You seem to be misunderstanding the post.

Please review it.

The original poster was referring to the dealer having a high UP CARD.
 
I reviewed the thread but I still must be misunderstanding it. With a high upcard (7-T) how is a soft 17 possible?

-Sonny-
 
Oh My God.

MY sincere apologies are in order.

These damn 80 mg. OxiContin tablets are really frying my brain.

Please ignore everything that I have said.

I was creating a Hard 17, not a Soft 17.
 
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FLASH1296 said:
Here is the simplest example:

The dealer shows a Face Card and flips over a 6.

He now has 16.

He hits and gets an Ace

He now has SOFT 17
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That would be a hard 17. The ace is counted as 1, not 11. The dealer hit his hard 16, got an ace and will now stand regardless of the H17/S17 rule. If you ever find a dealer who always hits T,6,A let me know right away.

-Sonny-
 
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