Playing Craps as Cover
- Thread starter MountainMan
- Start date
What do you mean? Don't those penny slots have a very high house edge? I personally have never played slots, so I admit I don't know much about it.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Yes it will. In fact, it will grind you down at about the same pace that blackjack AP play will enrich you.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a rationalization to play an non-advantage game. Yes, the variance is great-- how much bankroll do you need to play 10X odds? It seems like betting 10X in mildly negative counts at BJ, but never any other time. I believe the reduction to .18 is based on you being able to get your odds bet down, which of course you can't if you crap out (maybe ChefJJ or someone can weigh in), so all those crap outs represent the full 1%+ house edge.
But the biggest issue to me is that no surveillance crew in their right mind will say, "I won't evaluate his play at blackjack where he beat us out of several thousand dollars because he is playing craps which proves he is not an advantage player." If I am surveillance and you give me reason to believe you are counting, I will evaluate your blackjack game, regardless of whether you lose ten thousand dollars at roulette.
Why do you think they say, "Sir, you play too well for us at blackjack, but you're welcome to play any other game in the casino?" They don't want to lose your business, but they're sure as hell are not going to let you rob them at blackjack. The above statement was spoken to me upon being tapped while losing $500 at the blackjack table.
aslan
Well-Known Member
I think the gist of the thread is, "Don't play negative expectation games in order to cover your advantage play at blackjack. It doesn't work and it costs."
The best Bac game for cover is the big bac table in the HL room. It's much slower and the table is much larger enabling you to have a partner on the other side using betting slightly smaller units on the opposite side you are betting to reduce variance. We used to do this at the LV Hilton to qualify for the big Asian Baccarat tournaments they used to have and to run up enough of our theoretical so that we weren't kicked out of the final round should we make it. Also, quite often one of us would win big and the other would lose big so that one of us would get airfare and we'd then split it up between us and the airfare alone often covered a large part of the vig for both of us. (especially when you factored ratholing into the picture).
ChefJJ
Well-Known Member
I'm with the smart money on the thread saying that playing craps (or most any other table game) for cover is essentially a negative-EV drain without any true "cover".
But as far as your mechanics question, Aslan, getting the Odds bet down when playing the Pass (or Come) is at a point where the line bet is at a disadvantage...it's the come-out roll in this case that is highly favorable to the player (8 winners : 4 losers). It's the come-out naturals (3 winners : 8 losers) that are the house advantage maker for the Don't wagers. For whatever that is worth :grin:
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Ferretnparrot
Well-Known Member
Playing craps is very economical, A ten dollar base bet on the pass or dont pass line cost only 14 cents and will usually be in action for a period of time longer than one roll because of how the game works.
Additional money placed as odd is subject to no house advantage at all its 0% ev for both the casino and the player so you could put money on it, its not a big deal assuming you have a large enough bank roll.
Play ten rolls with 10 dollar base bets, get yourself a free drink while your there, and call it even steven.
I sometimes play craps just to have the time on my players card, and I do exactly what I stated above also sitting out some rolls to extend time at the table. If your putting enough oney into action, one modest sized bet at the blackjack table will make up for all the -ev playing a half hour at the craps table.
Additional money placed as odd is subject to no house advantage at all its 0% ev for both the casino and the player so you could put money on it, its not a big deal assuming you have a large enough bank roll.
Play ten rolls with 10 dollar base bets, get yourself a free drink while your there, and call it even steven.
I sometimes play craps just to have the time on my players card, and I do exactly what I stated above also sitting out some rolls to extend time at the table. If your putting enough oney into action, one modest sized bet at the blackjack table will make up for all the -ev playing a half hour at the craps table.
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aslan
Well-Known Member
That's a different story. I prefer JOB 9/6, because I think it's better EV, but I play craps occasionally as well, where the house is generous with comps, but I don't delude myself that I am accomplishing any meaningful degree of cover.
alwayssplitaces
Well-Known Member
If a casino notices a pattern of you counting and winning in blackjack, and losing it all and more in craps, they'll let you keep playing.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I'd say VP is the way to go- it can be played as advantage play in and of itself.
Craps has an advantage in that you can use it to confound their accounting of your chips.
ChefJJ
Well-Known Member
That is certainly a debatable statement, but there's not a whole lot of need to debate it here.
But it begs a better question: Why would a player seeking to grind out an advantage turn around and lose "it all and more in craps"?
Maybe we've lost sight of what "cover" truly means. :flame:
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
This statement is incorrect when referencing an actual advantage player.
If the player in question is betting RED at BJ and grinding out $100 a week,
while playing Craps for green chips AND it is determined that he is not playing a strong game, the Shift Manage can decide to let him skate, but will have surveillance keep a perpetual eye on him, should he ever elevate his skill level and the stakes he is playing for.
Even given these extreme conditions, most Casino Managers would want
to see him losing Ten times as much at Craps then what he is winning at
BJ before permitting him to continue.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Like many advantage players I have known at pool, maybe he uses his advantage play to finance his sucker play.That is certainly a debatable statement, but there's not a whole lot of need to debate it here.
But it begs a better question: Why would a player seeking to grind out an advantage turn around and lose "it all and more in craps"?
aslan
Well-Known Member
With cover like that, who needs cover? :laugh:
CrazyEddie
Member
I play craps, not for "cover," but because I've been sitting for too ****ing long and I don't want to get deep vein thrombosis. For 0.18% I can go over to the craps table and stand up for a while.
alwayssplitaces
Well-Known Member
You can stand at the craps table without placing a bet. Or stand up at your blackjack table.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Yup! Do it all the time. Or most importantly, walk around scouting the casino for other advantage plays, hole-carding at other BJ or 3CP tables, full-pay VP games, better pen, weak shuffle routines, or whatever AP you happen to know.
gamblingghost
Well-Known Member
Many times I walk into a casino, walk all over it and not like what I see and then walk out without placing a bet. If one can't do that they may not be an AP.