I'm been using KO for serveral months now. For some reason though, I do count faster and more accurate using HI LO. May be it's because of the extra neutral card to ignore? My question is, is it always neccessary to convert to the TC using HI LO? Couldn't I just start in the negative with the IRC? I'm not sure what that would be on a 6 or 8 deck shoe nor do I do know when I would start ramping up my bets. Anyways, just wondering if this would work. Any feed back would be appreciated.
No conversion HI LO?
- Thread starter stoicsang
- Start date
winnawinna
Well-Known Member
Hi-Lo is a balanced counting system. Therefore there is no need to start in the negative. A TC conversion is far better for playing indices and betting spreads. I think you can also convert KO into a TC system, but I may be wrong
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Get What You Put Into It
Probably any standard count you can play either balanced or unbalanced. Also, probably any count where you employ a TC will gain in strength.
Yes, you can use running HI LO, it's just not as strong without the TC.
Probably any standard count you can play either balanced or unbalanced. Also, probably any count where you employ a TC will gain in strength.
Yes, you can use running HI LO, it's just not as strong without the TC.
Yes, you can TC KO, and you can RC HiLo.
The advantage comes from since KO is unbalanced, if you start at the correct IRC, a certain RC means the same thing throughout the shoe. For example, in KO, starting at an IRC = -28 for 8D means that a RC of +4 is equal to a TC of +4 no matter where you are in the shoe. This is nice, because you'll usually want to have a lot of money out at +4, and want accurate betting and playing decisions there.
Contrarily, HiLo's RC of 0 corresponds to a TC of 0 no matter where you are in the shoe. So using a RC based HiLo will be very accurate for playing and betting decisions around 0, where you don't have a lot of money out.
This is why good and popular unbalanced counts usually sum to a positive number in a given deck.
Also, as an aside, some playing decisions in which a 7 either helps or hurts significantly will be more accurate when using KO.
I hope this clarifies some things.
The advantage comes from since KO is unbalanced, if you start at the correct IRC, a certain RC means the same thing throughout the shoe. For example, in KO, starting at an IRC = -28 for 8D means that a RC of +4 is equal to a TC of +4 no matter where you are in the shoe. This is nice, because you'll usually want to have a lot of money out at +4, and want accurate betting and playing decisions there.
Contrarily, HiLo's RC of 0 corresponds to a TC of 0 no matter where you are in the shoe. So using a RC based HiLo will be very accurate for playing and betting decisions around 0, where you don't have a lot of money out.
This is why good and popular unbalanced counts usually sum to a positive number in a given deck.
Also, as an aside, some playing decisions in which a 7 either helps or hurts significantly will be more accurate when using KO.
I hope this clarifies some things.
yesiamred
Well-Known Member
aslan
Well-Known Member
Very nice spreadsheet, but don't you have your wong out points a bit low?
Thank you. That is just for colors. This way any TC between -4 and -30 will be gray. Change it to -5, and just see how the cells with a TC < -5 become blue.
Besides colors, it has no effect on the spreadsheet.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. thanks
You could play "near Hi/Lo" in running count mode by dropping out the red Aces. Hence, you'd be ignoring all 7's, 8's, 9's and red Aces. Your "mathematical" betting efficiency will drop from 97% to 93.5%, but in reality, your performance will improve significantly over running count Hi/Lo due to the unbalancing feature, which will link the RC to the TC.
Begin six decks with an IRC of "9". Begin ramping up your bets at an RC of "20" (which will always be a TC between +1.3 and +1.8). You can use the 22 index plays from page 155 of Blackjack Bluebook II -- they will work fine with this hybrid count.
aslan
Well-Known Member
While we're on the subject more or less, will switching from KO to Unbalanced Zen yield any noticeable benefits?
I did what you suggested. Thanks for the correction.
In the sims I ran for BJBBII, UBZ yielded about a 6% higher gain than KO full. Runs were only 300 million hands each though.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Now you have me thinking. Currently, I check at each deck dealt whether I have reached TC key count (1/2% adv) or better. If I have reached TCKC, I raise my bet to 2 units. If I am somewhere near the midpoint between TCKC and +4, I raise my bet to one half max bet. I'll have to sim this way of playing KO, if that is possible, to see whether it yields me anywhere near the 6% gain of using UBZ. Do you think my method can be simmed with Qfit's software (what is it, CVCX?) which unfortunately I left in LV on my laptop there. Maybe I have a CD-- can't remember. lol I think I have early symptoms of Alzheimers.
I'd like to point out that Renzey is talking about 6 decks in his simulation, the advantage is higher and more apparent on double decks. If you want to know the difference between TKO and UBZ on 6 deck it is almost non-existent.