concerning team play
- Thread starter rogue1
- Start date
jetace
Well-Known Member
The calculator I use doesn't include the KISS III system as an option. I could run it for KO if you wanted.
It's really not going to make much of a difference. Your risk of ruin will go down if you are having your teammate only play on high counts. It is similar to wonging, however, you'll have to combine the losses you'll receive by playing basic strategy while waiting for the count to go high(-.37).
It's really not going to make much of a difference. Your risk of ruin will go down if you are having your teammate only play on high counts. It is similar to wonging, however, you'll have to combine the losses you'll receive by playing basic strategy while waiting for the count to go high(-.37).
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Here’s the easy part: Your advantage as the spotter is equal to the house edge, assuming you are flat betting and playing BS for every hand. If you are not playing (just backcounting and calling him in) then your advantage is 0%.
Now for the tougher part. The BP’s advantage will be based on the frequency of favorable counts and their advantages. What if you call him in at an advantage of 2%? His average advantage will be higher than 2% because he is playing all hands that are 2% or better. You would have to run a sim to find out exactly what his advantage is and how many hands he will play per hour. Then it is a simple calculation:
EV = BP’s Advantage * BP’s Action – Spotter’s Advantage * Spotter’s Action
Based on the game you mentioned, I would guess that the BP would play about 5 hands per hour at 2% or better. If you bet on any advantage of 0.5% or higher you can probably get 25 hands per hour alone or 44 hands per hour if you both backcount. I don’t know the average advantage off the top of my head but that should get you started.
Also, be aware that if you are playing at the same table (and from the same bankroll) then you will need to factor in the added variance of having both bets up at the same time. You can ignore this if you are playing at separate tables.
-Sonny-
I think it's always a good idea to keep your exposuer short!
As to the spotter having to deal with simply the house advantage, that's not completely true Sonny.
If you are going to play with a spotter as you suggest, i would assume that that spotter is going to walk away from the table once he's passed the count to the BP to find another good TC for the BP to play. This being the case, it is like inverse wonging - the spotter will only play in neutral and negative situation. This means that he will have to contend with more than the usual house advantage.
Even if the spotter was to sit at the table and play through - in my opinion a fruitless exercise as you are just going to be pulling extra money cards away from the BP - the spotter will still be at a greater disadvantage than usual as there will be an extra player every time the deck is advantageous.
Of course this disadvantage should still be irrelevant compared to the big players advantage so i guess i'm just nit picking lol.
Another thought that occurs is that the rogue1 was suggesting counting as normal and calling in another player when the deck gets advantageous - this would be no different than spreading to 2 hands when you have a good count and should only really be done in certain situation.
RJT.
As to the spotter having to deal with simply the house advantage, that's not completely true Sonny.
If you are going to play with a spotter as you suggest, i would assume that that spotter is going to walk away from the table once he's passed the count to the BP to find another good TC for the BP to play. This being the case, it is like inverse wonging - the spotter will only play in neutral and negative situation. This means that he will have to contend with more than the usual house advantage.
Even if the spotter was to sit at the table and play through - in my opinion a fruitless exercise as you are just going to be pulling extra money cards away from the BP - the spotter will still be at a greater disadvantage than usual as there will be an extra player every time the deck is advantageous.
Of course this disadvantage should still be irrelevant compared to the big players advantage so i guess i'm just nit picking lol.
Another thought that occurs is that the rogue1 was suggesting counting as normal and calling in another player when the deck gets advantageous - this would be no different than spreading to 2 hands when you have a good count and should only really be done in certain situation.
RJT.
I think I was getting terminology confused. It is the Gorilla BP that just plays and relies solely on signals for information, correct?
Yeh, the Gorilla BP does not count. He usually is drunk (or giving a really good act of being and paying no attention what-so-ever to the cards) and will just follow signals given by the spotter.
A standard BP will be passed the count by the spotter, the spotter will leave and the BP will keep the count and stay at the table as long as it's favorable.
RJT.
A standard BP will be passed the count by the spotter, the spotter will leave and the BP will keep the count and stay at the table as long as it's favorable.
RJT.
jetace
Well-Known Member
That is correct, a gorilla has a monkey brain. He just needs to look and act the part.
It sounds as that the normal BP is mutch easier to spot while the gorilla is almost impossible since he doesn't need to stay focused, why does sutch thing as a normal BP exist if it's so mutch easier to get away with having a guy that doesn't need to count while he is playing big?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
Because it is less profitable. You have a counter who is capable of playing a BP role but he is stuck calling plays for another player. Basically his skill is being wasted. It would be more profitable to have him playing at a different table instead of wasting his skill betting the minimum through every high count. You are also limiting yourself by having a GBP that relies on other teammates for his signals.
-Sonny-
zengrifter
Banned
I say.....(drum roll).... 2%.
Or were you guys thinking of over betting in those moments? zg
Ok, that sounds reasonable. How big of a difference is it by a gorilla to be busted and a normal BP?
Sonny
Well-Known Member
If a gorilla gets busted it's not that bad. You can always train a new one to learn a few signals. Losing a real BP is much worse because they are hard to find and sometimes take 6-12 months to train. A real BP is much more valuable and much more profitable.
-Sonny-