bankroll

While this sounds like a bad thing waiting to happen, I must say that I'm kind of jealous. The thought of just packing up and heading to Vegas to give it a shot, with the safety net of having mom and dad to bail me out if it tanks, is pretty cool.

Makes me wish I was young and had no responsibilities again so I could do crazy stuff like this.

If you do end up going, make sure you keep a journal of all the **** that goes down, and make sure you try to have fun while it lasts! :grin:
 
First of all, thanks everyone for the fantastic posts. This is just the kind of advice I am looking for. I am just not going to worry about Las Vegas crime or living in the wrong part of town. When I do searches there seems to be a great number of affordable nice looking Vegas apartments in many different parts of town. Not that I would ever use them, but I do have professional mixed martial arts skills so I don't expect anyone to give me too much trouble not that I would fight anyone if they did.

bluewhale said:
i think the pros will disagree, but i say go for it. this is what life is about, taking chances. you seem to have things worked out quite well, and seem to be prepared for a hard life. gambling long hours, mental fatigue of the roller coaster life that is gambling, etc.
you have a backup of going back to your parents house so its not like you're gonna be a bum if you hit negative variance.
since you're making this your career, i hope you plan on going much further than KO, shuffletracking, cut card....... you shld be pulling every trick in the book, use the time you have now to hone these skillz.
i think when push comes to shove, there'll come a point where you'll realize that you're actually playing for your next meal and you're learning curve will be sharper than ever before you'll learn what it takes to survive and you'll pull through.
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It's not going to be a hard life. It will be infinitely easier than like a rocket scientist or whatever else I would do. The only reason I want to be a pro gambler is because it is so easy. If it were really hard then I would just be a rocket scientist like everyone else. I plan on going much further than KO, shuffletracking, cut card, mainly pulling tricks not written in books. I have decided not to grind it out and deal with the ups and downs of fluxuations, but instead to focus on much larger advantage plays.

WumpieJr said:
I'm very curious about that... care to share?
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I wish I could, but this is my ultimate number one super secret weapon. This is my "swis army knife". This is my ticket to the good life. This is so incredible so amazing that I would be beyond insane to mention it on a messageboard. You don't want this kind of thing to enter into the consiousness of man. I understand that it is not fair of me to say this and then not let you know so I will tell anyone my secret if they private message me simply because the nature of my secret really parallels shuffle tracking in that I can tell the few people that PM me with almost no chance of anyone actually pulling it off so it's like good relations with almost no risk, but I'm not going to tell thousands of people on the internet.
 
EasyRhino said:
So, it is male prostitution, then?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's legal in Nevada.
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I mean, seriously, when the chips are down, why not? The kid's obviously got the brains (rocket science), the confidence, the skills (has a killer cover), and the moves (karate). :laugh:

Seriously though, we've all gotta admit that this cat has an extraordinary amount of confidence...kinda like T.O., you know "I love me some me". It would seem that being a professional gambler would take a good amount of confidence to be sure of your skills and that the long run advantage will treat you well.

I just hate to hear CoolMan underestimate the cost of living...the "cost of doing business" you could say. Business plan, brother, business plan.

good luck
 
First of all, I want to wish you the best on your new career. Like many others, I would feel more comfortable if you had more of the details figured out (like specific games and spreads, EVs, etc.), but I know you’re a smart guy and you’ll learn it all pretty quickly. And you’re young, you’ve got a good education and a solid family as a back up if you need it. I’m sure you’ll be fine.

I just don’t think it’s going to be as easy as you think it will. You’ll be grinding away for quite a while. You’ll have to reinvest a lot of your winnings back into your bankroll which will reduce your “living EV” quite a bit. As others have pointed out, things like housing, utilities, car insurance, car repairs, student loans, groceries, and other bills will add up very quickly. You could easily end up spending $2500 each month in living expenses alone. You also don’t get any of the usual benefits like health insurance, disability insurance/workman’s comp, paid time off, paid travel, annual raises/bonuses, 401k or other retirement options, and you don’t get a steady paycheck. LVBear talks about it in his interview here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040607044655/www.cardcounter.com/Interview_las_vegas_bear.htm

And even if you make it, it may not be the kind of life you wanted to end up in. You’ll be living in that cheap apartment and eating cheap food for a long time. You’ll be spending most of your time in dark, smoky, dingy casinos. You will have to work strange hours in order to play on different shifts, and you'll still lose some of your favorite games when you get "the tap." You won’t be able to have many friends or social interactions. That’s all fine for now, but there’s a good chance that you’ll be spending several years (or more!) living like this. Is that really easier than getting a straight job?

Getting the advantage is easy. Making it worth your while is the hard part.

-Sonny-
 
Unlike Iowa or South Dakota,there are neighborhoods in Vegas,particularly North Vegas where white folks,even those armed with Super-karate skills should not venture. To think about living there,and engage in a cash business is akin to suicide.If you don't believe me,fine. But be aware that the Metro Police had banned the tv show COPS from filming in certain areas,not because they don't want America to see the problems,but because they cannot guarentee the saftey of the film crews.Think about that. They can't ensure the saftey of a crew RIDING in a cop car.
 
Well, reading the first page of responses you got just about what I expected. People who do not gamble for a living will RARELY ever advise someone to give it a shot...not matter what the person's credintials.

In the past 4 years, I've become a professional gambler, and I've coached 2 people under me from 9-5 jobs to being full time gamblers. Both have been successful. So you could say I'm "pro" gambling for a living.

With all that said:

You really don't sound like you have what it takes. There's a certain maturity that's needed when you run poorly/run into bad situations. Also you really need more hours at the table to have a good understanding of your skills. Overconfidence has been the downfall of many a gambler.

Now I'm not saying you won't make it, everyone told me I wouldn't, but I would put your chance of success at maybe 50/50...again, it's not my life, do what you want, if you want to flip a coin, go for it.
 
supercoolmancool said:
The only reason I want to be a pro gambler is because it is so easy.
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This is why I think you'll fail (if you do)

but good luck

being a professional gambler is anything but easy...just wait till you hit your first BAD month and wonder how the heck anyone could possibly run THIS bad (happened to me twice now)
 
Actually, SMCMC, if at all possible, I'd recommend a short "vacation" to Vegas or similar gambling-infested location (Reno, whatever), and try playing for 40 hours during one week, and see how you feel at the end.

I estimate the potential for burnout would be pretty high.
 
EasyRhino said:
Actually, SMCMC, if at all possible, I'd recommend a short "vacation" to Vegas or similar gambling-infested location (Reno, whatever), and try playing for 40 hours during one week, and see how you feel at the end.

I estimate the potential for burnout would be pretty high.
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It can't be any more physically draining than working 40 hours/week at a normal 9-5 job. The only difference is it is mentally stressful, which I'm sure supercoolmancool can handle.
 
speaking of going pro

i too am actually going pro. but like someone suggested, i'm only doing it for the summer. i just turned 20. right now my skillz are....

can straight count using hi/low (never ever mess up the RC, but my TC conversions are a shoddy... but that will be fixed in the summer).

poker: i can beat a low stakes (up to 5-5) NL game in a casino no problem. i can't give you win rates because to be honest i haven't been taking it overly seriously so far.

so any tips? i have acess to a 20k roll. 3 casinos within an 2 hrs, and 2 more within 6 hours.
 
Wow. Ive been missing out on quite the interesting thread.
First and foremost, IF you decide to do this, I wish the best of luck to you.

Ive considered packing my bags and going to vegas, but i have a good job and supplement my income with BJ. Like others mentioned before, i think people underestimate the difficulty of playing full time. Ive taken trips to areas of interest, and playing BJ wears on you fast. Winning is nice, but expenses are high, (especially in vegas), and losing a big session is extremely mentally taxing, especially if youre in a bad spot. If youre not ready for it, youll be in a world of s***.

You sound like you havent had many bad experiences in your life, which (in my humble opinion), might account for some of misplaced confidence. Have you ever been mugged? Had the crap kicked out of you? Had something terrible happen to you and been hundreds of miles away from anyone that cares you exist and have no money? Its not a good feeling. All im saying is have a solid contingency plan and be prepared for the worst.

And IF you are able to be a "rocket scientist or whatever", why not put a little interest into something a little more...profitable? If everything you touch turns to gold, you could probably do alot better than gambling.

Anyway, like i said, the best of luck to you.
 
EasyRhino said:
Actually, SMCMC, if at all possible, I'd recommend a short "vacation" to Vegas or similar gambling-infested location (Reno, whatever), and try playing for 40 hours during one week, and see how you feel at the end. I estimate the potential for burnout would be pretty high.
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This is definitely easy to do...as i did it in just 2 days! overall, it was stressful as there was a period where my last unit bet was on the table and luckily won. Plus very tiring!!! One advice i learnt from doing this experiment was to have defined and realistic goals, to limit any losses, and to realize that you can still lose your hands when RC/TC are high +. Good luck.
 
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All i have to say is if you go for it good luck. Only thing I think is you might be overconfident on how easy it is. Any you saying that they will NEVER catch you is a mistake - your cover could last/pass for say years, but sooner or later you could slip up, make a mistake. You will have to have perfect cover for years without making a mistake and nobody is perfect. Also what about the distractions in LV - women, drinking? You can't partake of any of it.

I have to agree with Sonny on cost of living - you say allow for $1K/month - I just had my car fixed and it cost almost $1k - oops there's one month of $$ now what do you do? Put everything on plastic? Now there's a bad idea, put food, rent, bills on credit card. I think that there is way more to think about than what you are thinking about. I would agree with the others - go to Vegas for a weekend, a week, 2 weeks see how you like it and if it is for you before venturing into moving there.

With all that said:
Since you are young WTF? Good luck.
 
ihate17 said:
With a $15,000 bankroll, what kind of bet spread and what kind of max bet are you figuring on? Have you run a computer sim showing how much your expected win per hour will be and how many hours do you plan to play per week or month? I honestly do not think that you can expect to make an average of over $1,000 per month unless you take a high risk on your bankroll and or play a huge amount of hours.
Do you have a plan B in case you run into negative variance early on? In other words a job lined up. A job will cut into your play hours but will also cover some of your overhead and perhaps make your bankroll replentisable.

ihate17
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$15,000 should be plenty for green chip play with a $25 min and 1-5 spread. I've heard 500 of your minimum bet or 100 of your maximum bet puts you statistically near zero risk of ruin. My playing experience suggests that to be true.

It seems to me that if you play with an average 1% advantage that gives you a win rate of about $50 per hour. That should easily surpass $1000 per month.

Winging it sounds like a poor idea to me. I have noticed that the more meticulous I have become in my preparations and goals, the more successful I have been. No plan = a bad plan.

I suggest you move around a lot. Find the best conditions, learn the personnel and shift changes, and take advantage of those. You may want to play a manipulative game with players cards. If so, I suggest pocketing some of your chips 1-2 green at a time. I know some people don't like that idea, but it has worked for me.

Also, do yourself a favor and hop a flight over to MS every couple of weeks. Conditions there are better overall than Vegas, IMO.

Lastly, do NOT play 6-deck games. The variance will likely eat your lunch.
 
Knox said:
No plan = a bad plan.
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Ain't that the truth :)

And one plan doesn't fit all games. It fits one game.

And he doesn't have one plan. Unless you call "having a $100 max bet" a plan. Or "using KO for counting and Hi-Lo for advanced techniques. I hardly plan on counting at all.... I can bet on sports too."

And this guy is worried about cover?

It's probably just me, and I wish him luck, but this guy is so obviously under-qualified it's almost irresponsible to say go for it.

Is there anything someone can say that we would all agree he just ain't ready? Or you think just having money and being able to add and subtract 1 most of the time makes for an advantage player who will consistently make money?
 
Kasi said:
No.

And it's fine if you disagree with me. But what is it he has said that makes you think he's "ready"?
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I know because I know him personally.

His post about what he is going to do was very vague and sounded like he didn't have a plan. The reason is because he has never been to Vegas, so he would obviously check out the games and make a plan after seeing what there is to plan around. Believe me, he isn't just going to go in with a simple plan and attack any and all games with the same plan. It kind of sounded like he just made up a plan and was going to use it on all games, but that's not true. He was just estimating the max bet he would have with x amount of dollars.

I'm still not saying I believe he is certainly ready to go pro right now, but he isn't diving into Vegas without a clue like some people thought after his post.
 
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