Youngster Rips Reno/Vegas Baffles Geezer

[Bobaloo]

Thanks BJinJ

 

[EasyRhino]

Will they ban you today if they spot you counting without waiting to see if you are any good? I don't know.

A smart casino would monitor you long enough to determine if your counting was technically proficient enough to be legit (but not worry about your win/loss at the moment) A dumb casino would toss anyone who was winning too much, even if it was a ploppy.

It did occur to me at the mgm vegas a few weeks ago that it was odd that in my one hour of play they sent 3 different dealers to my table but since I wasn't counting and couldn't even remember most of basic strategy I couldn't have been a threat to them.

Could have just been coincidental timing of dealer shifts.

 

[BJinNJ]

An Online Online Source...

that might answer your questions:

http://www.bjrnet.com/GameMasters/GameMasterClassics1.html

Be sure to check out the whole website, not just the BJ School.

BJinNJ

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

The other method is to interupt, and shuffle,in the middle of the round when the cut card comes out.
And continue where you left off after the cards are shuffled.
When you play in these type of games its essential that you count the cards on the table during the shuffle and start this as your RC.

Since ive never played in these type of games, maybe somebody can explain this a little better than me.

ive never heard of this, and if it does exist, i can guarantee you it doesnt exist in 6-8 deck games, because i highly doubt a handful of cards coming out after the cut card matters, and if it did, you would think that dealers would be much better at placing the cut card to begin with anyways

I suppose you know that the dealer cannot tell what his hole card is, other than a ten or ace? There are special markings on the faces of these cards so the dealer can check for blackjack, but nothing else. Too bad. If dealers knew what other card was in the hole, they might telegraph it to players through inadvertent facial expressions or body movements (or even planned collusive signals).

actually, there are no markings, and surprisingly, i found out the other day how they do it.. i was playing video poker and talking to this woman about bj and this guy yelled down the bank "finally som1 who knows wtf he is talking about" so i go over and talk to him, and hes like oh ya you didnt know that on the 2-9 cards, the number is not in the top corner of the card, its about 3/4 of an inch down from the top, but the T-A are at the very top.. i was like no way, but then i went and looked and was shocked i hadnt noticed before.. now the electronic ones (not the mirrors)? those have magnets in the cards, or metal rather, that would disrupt a magnet

u got banned for "ripping" Reno for $200??? dosnt seem like much of a rip... sorry

i agree with you zero, i read his title like 5x and thot wtf, then as i was reading i was like oook

I dont think I said I was banned totally from any casino. I was told I could no longer play bj in two casinos, but that other games were ok. Remember this was 1976 and the casinos were still trying to figure out whether Thorp's strategy was really a threat or not. In one case, I was called in to the security office and told they had my photo and not to try to play again because I was counting cards and that was prohibited. In another case the pit boss simply came over and said "No more blackjack. You are welcome to play any other game." When I asked him why he said, "You are too good for us." This was pretty silly since I was just beginning to play as a counter and my skills were pretty low level.

The problem was it was obvious to these two casinos that I was counting and in Reno in 1976, they did not wait to see if I hurt them financially, they just refused to let me continue once they spotted me. Hell, I was probably moving my lips as I counted. Anyway, this happened on the first day and I played the rest of the time without incident. Except one dealer questioned why I raised my normal bet just before he dealt a blackjack. I was careful thereafter to spread my bets from 1 to 3 minimum units.

It is clear to me that you have to be a lot better today than i ever was to succeed in the casinos. Will they ban you today if they spot you counting without waiting to see if you are any good? I don't know.

It did occur to me at the mgm vegas a few weeks ago that it was odd that in my one hour of play they sent 3 different dealers to my table but since I wasn't counting and couldn't even remember most of basic strategy I couldn't have been a threat to them.

no, you will not be backed off just for mouthing the count, or raising your bet, not immediately, not like you said in your story, thats extreme, and you hit it dead on, the casinos overreacted to thorp

 

[jack.jackson]

ive never heard of this, and if it does exist, i can guarantee you it doesnt exist in 6-8 deck games, because i highly doubt a handful of cards coming out after the cut card matters, and if it did, you would think that dealers would be much better at placing the cut card to begin with anyways

Well you might right about that! When i first posted this I was confident I read it out of one of my few blackjack books that I have, but when I thumbed through them I couldnt find it anywhere that says anything about this.

The only other explanation I have, is perhaps I heard it on the street on something, just not sure. Oh well. Just be aware it could possibly exist

Had any luck at the casinos yet bob?? Just curious as to how your doin thus far??

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Well you might right about that! When i first posted this I was confident I read it out of one of my few blackjack books that I have, but when I thumbed through them I couldnt find it anywhere that says anything about this.

The only other explanation I have, is perhaps I heard it on the street on something, just not sure. Oh well. Just be aware it could possibly exist

Had any luck at the casinos yet bob?? Just curious as to how your doin thus far??

well, in my 150 hours of playing bs bj flat betting $3 and nickel jacks+ vp, i broke even.. in 10 hours of flat betting $10, only playing positive counts, using a few indexes, i have lost $300.. i really hope i hit some high variance, outside of that 68% range, hell even outside 90%

 

[Kasi]

well, in my 150 hours of playing bs bj flat betting $3 and nickel jacks+ vp, i broke even.. in 10 hours of flat betting $10, only playing positive counts, using a few indexes, i have lost $300.. i really hope i hit some high variance, outside of that 68% range, hell even outside 90%

While I can't calculate the liklihood of breaking even over 2 very different games, here's my thoughts on, with a few assumptions that may be relevant or not, to losing your $300 (30 units) in 10 hours.

Should u choose to isolate your $3 BJ results, I can probably do that.

Assuming you played 300 hands in those 10 hours, since you were only playing positive running counts, with an average advantage of basically nothing, just my assumption, you are indeed outside your 90% range, say 93%, of losing that much or more, or around -1.45 standard deviations or so.

Even assuming a BS player playing 60 hands an hour, 600 hands in total, it would be around 83% of losing 30 units or more, less than 1 standard deviation.

So, my guess, somewhere in that range.

Hope that the liklihood that you have likley suffered nothing more than what seems like nothing more than a little bad luck helps you in some way.

As you know, 10 hours ain't crap anyway.

The more you can estimate how many you hands you played at what avg HA,
the more accurate we can be!

And, should you ever bet more than $10 on a hand, because you're pissed or whatever, it can make a big difference in these calculations. The main thing is, it ain't dollars, it's units.

Do you, or did you in those 10 hours, really never ever bet more than $10 come hell or high water? Just curious. If so, I congratulate you on your discipline

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

While I can't calculate the liklihood of breaking even over 2 very different games, here's my thoughts on, with a few assumptions that may be relevant or not, to losing your $300 (30 units) in 10 hours.

Should u choose to isolate your $3 BJ results, I can probably do that.

Assuming you played 300 hands in those 10 hours, since you were only playing positive running counts, with an average advantage of basically nothing, just my assumption, you are indeed outside your 90% range, say 93%, of losing that much or more, or around -1.45 standard deviations or so.

Even assuming a BS player playing 60 hands an hour, 600 hands in total, it would be around 83% of losing 30 units or more, less than 1 standard deviation.

So, my guess, somewhere in that range.

Hope that the liklihood that you have likley suffered nothing more than what seems like nothing more than a little bad luck helps you in some way.

As you know, 10 hours ain't crap anyway.

The more you can estimate how many you hands you played at what avg HA,
the more accurate we can be!

And, should you ever bet more than $10 on a hand, because you're pissed or whatever, it can make a big difference in these calculations. The main thing is, it ain't dollars, it's units.

Do you, or did you in those 10 hours, really never ever bet more than $10 come hell or high water? Just curious. If so, I congratulate you on your discipline

do you consider .5% "basically nothing"? because i am closer to .5% than i am 0%.. remember, wonging is HUGE, i do know this, and i would really really like to see a chart that shows your advantage with various wonging and spreading, and i bet it would show that wonging is more powerful than spreading, but just like spreading = RoR, wonging = not playing much, thus wonging isnt practical if you want like a 1% edge (no spread)

no, in my 100-200 hours of bj, i have bet more than the table minimum only a few times, and they were at the $3 table to get rid of some pinks, so i was betting $4.50, until i found out that if you get a blackjack, you lose a quarter (if anybody out there gets rounded up at their casino, i suggest you bet a pink every hand)

 

[Sonny]

i would really really like to see a chart that shows your advantage with various wonging and spreading

There’s a little book called Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger. It has a chapter called The World’s Greatest Blackjack Simulation. It is filled with page after page of charts that show your advantage (and SD, ROR, DI, optimal bets, etc.) for various wonging and spreading styles. I think you would love it.

wonging = not playing much, thus wonging isnt practical if you want like a 1% edge (no spread)

But wonging is the only way to get a 1% advantage if you aren’t spreading. I think you’re confusing “boring” with “not practical.” Sure backcounting can be boring, but it’s really the only way to count shoes.

-Sonny-

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

There’s a little book called Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger. It has a chapter called The World’s Greatest Blackjack Simulation. It is filled with page after page of charts that show your advantage (and SD, ROR, DI, optimal bets, etc.) for various wonging and spreading styles. I think you would love it.



But wonging is the only way to get a 1% advantage if you aren’t spreading. I think you’re confusing “boring” with “not practical.” Sure backcounting can be boring, but it’s really the only way to count shoes.

-Sonny-

im not going to go around and edit all my posts, but i was wrong, (if bjstats.com frequency of counts chart is right), i am playing at around -.1% to 0%, not including comps.. and yes, i want to check out blackjack attack, and i will.. it sucks you cant count cards in video poker, because i freakin love that game, its so much fun, and im going to keep playing it until they remove the full pay progressive bank of jacks+, as depending on what the royal is at, it can be anywhere from -.1% to -.5%

 

[Kasi]

do you consider .5% "basically nothing"? because i am closer to .5% than i am 0%.. remember, wonging is HUGE, i do know this, and i would really really like to see a chart that shows your advantage with various wonging and spreading, and i bet it would show that wonging is more powerful than spreading, but just like spreading = RoR, wonging = not playing much, thus wonging isnt practical if you want like a 1% edge (no spread)

Not sure I've ever said 0.5% is basically nothing. If so, perhaps I meant it could lead to very few absolute dollars under some games and betting schemes. Although to me the dollars would not be as important as the fact your results could verify over time #1 your assumption of HA is correct and you are playing properly.

When you say you play only positive running counts, I'd say that's a type of wonging.

Anyway, I was thinking today, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I was wondering how you come up with your advantage, and/or win rate/hr, given that it doesn't seem you use sims.

Maybe we could start with whatever rules, penetration, your $10 game is and how you play it.

Just as I was thinking that maybe your 0.5% advantage might actually be under-stated, I think I saw just now you now think you maybe playing at a slight disadvantge.

No big deal, just wondering about methodology in general. Don't worry, I won't know if you're right or wrong anyway lol.