Long Live Double Deck!

[aslan]

Ive always wondered if your playin in a pitch game(face down) and your tryin to get a glimpse of the other players cards. Exactly what their atitude is, when rubber neckin to see their cards?
I bet some players think, your tryin to cheat them by tryin to see their cards and quickly hide them so you cant see them:laugh:

Sometimes they offer to show me. Other times they hide them. I don't rubberneck to see them, but if I do see them, it gives me an updated count before I decide what I'm going to do, although the bet is already down. I might decide not to make a preferred play however.

 

[aslan]

Actually most pitch games in Vegas are dealt face up. Only the Venetian deals them face down that I know of, and then only in the high limit room (which is S17, one of the only S17 double deck games in Vegas not at MGM properties). I like the face down game, it is fun -- but the Venetian table is usually crowded. They open a 2nd one sometimes, but rarely. And it is usually crowded. A shame. Stardust used to have a DD S17 face down game.

I thought Harrah's DD would be 6:5. Turns out it is 3:2 but the rules generally suck, like all of Harrah's properties now.

Harrah's deals face down. THey pay 3 to 2. Dealer hits soft 17, DD on any two cards, DD after split. Not too hateful.

 

[aslan]

harrahs sux.
Play at El Cortez,the DD games are face up shoes.Much easier to count.

I haven't found face down hard to count. I fear the EC may be harder to camo, since all the counters seem to go there. Don't they ever get wise?

 

[InPlay]

Harrah's deals face down. THey pay 3 to 2. Dealer hits soft 17, DD on any two cards, DD after split. Not too hateful.

They must have changed their rules since the last week of August. Never was no Double Down after split on a 2 deck game. Even last year it was the same. Did they change the rules ?

 

[aslan]

Was just wondering because you said it was easy to count. Being an east coast guy, I believe you're a newbie to pitch games and counting, so was suprised you thought it easy.

I have quickly logged in hundreds of hours. But what's so hard to do when using a system as easy as KO with no additional math required. After a while you can do it in your sleep. Occasionally you may miss a card because of a quick sweep by the dealer, but you just count it the worst case scenario and proceed. Consequently you may reach your key count a point late, but that's usually not critical, and actually adds a tiny bit off camo. The dd games are new to me, but after four hours I figured out the ebb and flow of the game. You get into a kind of rythmn first counting your cards and the dealer's cards, then counting anyone who shows you their cards, then counting the hits and double down exposures, and finally counting the final turnovers, first the dealer and then each player. There are so many canceling sets of cards that it really isn't much work. Staying attentive for 5 or 6 hours is taxing, but a red bull is usually up to the task. lol

 

[aslan]

Mirage has a $25 double deck game where the dealer stays on soft 17 for only $25 most of the time. You could also try TI. Go early morning and you often find empty tables and lower limits.

Also, Slots-A-Fun has a double deck game far better than Harrah's for $5 but pen is generally poor.

You had a good run playing a double deck game that is inferior to the ones mentioned above, but trying it for the first time at lower limits is always smart.

ihate17

I played for many hours. When they thought someone might be doing something (the guy next to me was betting 3 and 4 hundred at a time and then only $25, but believe me, he wasn't doing anything in terms of counting) they put in a dealer who was cutting a full deck. I just hunkered down at min bet until he was satisfied that no one was doing anything. As the game went on he loosened up and gave better pen. Then there were other dealers who game better pen all the time. It was rough for a while but when the pen loosened up the winning grew.

What does IT stand for?

 

[aslan]

Not to mention that DAS is allowed at El Cortez DD games, but not at Harrah's DD gamees.

DAS means double after splitting? I was doubling after splitting at Harrah's. Maybe they changed it?

 

[InPlay]

I played for many hours. When they thought someone might be doing something (the guy next to me was betting 3 and 4 hundred at a time and then only $25, but believe me, he wasn't doing anything in terms of counting) they put in a dealer who was cutting a full deck. I just hunkered down at min bet until he was satisfied that no one was doing anything. As the game went on he loosened up and gave better pen. Then there were other dealers who game better pen all the time. It was rough for a while but when the pen loosened up the winning grew.

What does IT stand for?

Its TI Treasure Island a MGM Property.

 

[aslan]

I used to play exclusively double-deck, but have since switched to shoes because good 2D games are very difficult to find. If penetration is 1.0/2.0, the game is only marginally playable if you're head's up. If there's even one other player at the table, I'll look for something better. If you really like 2D, I suggest going to Reno.

I'm also surprised at the comment that it's easier to hide your play with 2D. With 2D games, the count varies much more often than a shoe, and you're constantly having to vary your bet. It doesn't take much of this type of betting for some pits to become very suspicious. My 2D sessions are typically only 1/3 to 1/2 as long as my shoe sessions because of this.

If you are playiaang 8 deck you may have to min bet 20 times and then begin ramping up. That is a whole lot more revealing than dd where the count can jump quickly. The only way to disguise in 6 or 8 deck is to wong out, and that too is revealing. I have a number of tricks I use in dd that seem to give me good cover.

 

[aslan]

They must have changed their rules since the last week of August. Never was no Double Down after split on a 2 deck game. Even last year it was the same. Did they change the rules ?

I doubled down. That's all I can say. Maybe the dealers didn't catch it. Dealers come and go and are responsible for a variety of games. You may be right and I just got away with it.

 

[bj bob]

Tip for DD pitch

Sometimes they offer to show me. Other times they hide them. I don't rubberneck to see them, but if I do see them, it gives me an updated count before I decide what I'm going to do, although the bet is already down. I might decide not to make a preferred play however.

Aslan, try playing the "shortstop" position (i.e right of third base) on pitch games. You get all the benefits of 3rd base while still being able to read the hole cards of both players next to you--a luxury you don't have playing 3rd, also less likelihood of heat.

 

[beat320]

so I was reading the website about the caesar's pitch game I was talking about and it said that once you get a natural blackjack you have to turn your cards over and show them immediately...well since its a 6/5 blackjack and all what if i just doubled and pretended like i had no idea how to play?

 

[InPlay]

I doubled down. That's all I can say. Maybe the dealers didn't catch it. Dealers come and go and are responsible for a variety of games. You may be right and I just got away with it.

I doubt it ! Not at Harrahs ! Thats why I question your post. Lots of fabriaction from posters. Sometimes they get caught up in seperating fact from fiction or just by sitting in front of a computer.

 

[shadroch]

so I was reading the website about the caesar's pitch game I was talking about and it said that once you get a natural blackjack you have to turn your cards over and show them immediately...well since its a 6/5 blackjack and all what if i just doubled and pretended like i had no idea how to play?

Even a 6-5 100% payout on a natural is much better EV than doubling is.It sounds good,but you are just throwing your money away.

 

[shadroch]

I doubt it ! Not at Harrahs ! Thats why I question your post. Lots of fabriaction from posters. Sometimes they get caught up in seperating fact from fiction or just by sitting in front of a computer.

I've got to say I'm confused by this as well.Harrahs has pretty much the worse games on the strip,except O'Sheas..

 

[aslan]

Aslan, try playing the "shortstop" position (i.e right of third base) on pitch games. You get all the benefits of 3rd base while still being able to read the hole cards of both players next to you--a luxury you don't have playing 3rd, also less likelihood of heat.

I sit there a lot, but never consciously thought of the bennies the way you describe them. Thanks.

 

[aslan]

I doubt it ! Not at Harrahs ! Thats why I question your post. Lots of fabriaction from posters. Sometimes they get caught up in seperating fact from fiction or just by sitting in front of a computer.

I may not have realized the rule, but I resent the accusation that I am fabricating, that is, lying about it. I have no motive to, for one thing. I played all night and the subject of not double after splitting never came into play. I assume the occasions arose. Could it be that in several hours of play no one had a double opportunity after splitting? Possibly. All I'm saying is that I was not aware of this rule if it existed. I was at Paris and Bally's today and sure enough the words no double after splitting are right there on the felt. I didn't get back to Harrah's today, so I still don't know. One evidence that I actually played there is that nearly all the dealers were black and so was the pit boss. A guy named J.C. was the only white dealer there as I remember, although he could have been black too, because I often don't remember a person by his color. Check that out if you thing I wasn't there, bud.

I also know it was one of the most enjoyable sessions I've ever had with plenty of talk and hoarsing around among the dealers, the players and sometimes the pit. We actually had a blast and a couple of us won some money.

 

[InPlay]

I may not have realized the rule, but I resent the accusation that I am fabricating, that is, lying about it. I have no motive to, for one thing. I played all night and the subject of not double after splitting never came into play. I assume the occasions arose. Could it be that in several hours of play no one had a double opportunity after splitting? Possibly. All I'm saying is that I was not aware of this rule if it existed. I was at Paris and Bally's today and sure enough the words no double after splitting are right there on the felt. I didn't get back to Harrah's today, so I still don't know. One evidence that I actually played there is that nearly all the dealers were black and so was the pit boss. A guy named J.C. was the only white dealer there as I remember, although he could have been black too, because I often don't remember a person by his color. Check that out if you thing I wasn't there, bud.

I also know it was one of the most enjoyable sessions I've ever had with plenty of talk and hoarsing around among the dealers, the players and sometimes the pit. We actually had a blast and a couple of us won some money.

I will assume you have flown to Las Vegas so how about scanning your plane ticket into a post when you get home ?

 

[SecurityRisk]

DAS means double after splitting? I was doubling after splitting at Harrah's. Maybe they changed it?

Perhaps they changed the rules since I was there last. I know it used to be no DAS. I know it's not exactly proof, but I'm going to Vegas in December. I will check the rules when I'm there and post them here.

 

[beat320]

Even a 6-5 100% payout on a natural is much better EV than doubling is.It sounds good,but you are just throwing your money away.

Thanks Shad! Looks like I'll just be sticking to 6D shoe games then