Do you get frustrated looking for decent games?
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
yes i do get frustrated by the nature of the games one finds out there.
for those of us whose options are limited i guess it just calls for a 'modified' approach and perhaps more of a gamble.
golfnut101
Well-Known Member
getting frustrated looking for games
This is a valid question. The experienced players tell you to avoid certain games/conditions. Their is no question certain conditions(poor pen, 6:5 comes to mind)must be avoided. But, realistically for some, its either adjust, or dont play. I play a 6d, h17 no hole card game that is a grind. But, by carefully selecting dealers that give very good pen, and some aggressive wonging, I manage to stay ahead. Also, their are some small 'ap' tricks that are out their. It has been very educational to read some posts here, and to then go out and either practice, or find them, and exploit, however infrequent or small they may be. For a small player like myself($10 unit, 1-10 spread/$5k replenishable br) I get a rise out of the challenge; the learning and trying thing is good. I guess if their is anything I can share is you gotta practice like hell, irreguardless of system used, and dont be afraid to give it a go. Be disciplined; assess your play, and practice new things. Large enough br is key.
happy hunting
This is a valid question. The experienced players tell you to avoid certain games/conditions. Their is no question certain conditions(poor pen, 6:5 comes to mind)must be avoided. But, realistically for some, its either adjust, or dont play. I play a 6d, h17 no hole card game that is a grind. But, by carefully selecting dealers that give very good pen, and some aggressive wonging, I manage to stay ahead. Also, their are some small 'ap' tricks that are out their. It has been very educational to read some posts here, and to then go out and either practice, or find them, and exploit, however infrequent or small they may be. For a small player like myself($10 unit, 1-10 spread/$5k replenishable br) I get a rise out of the challenge; the learning and trying thing is good. I guess if their is anything I can share is you gotta practice like hell, irreguardless of system used, and dont be afraid to give it a go. Be disciplined; assess your play, and practice new things. Large enough br is key.
happy hunting
I don't think so.
First, conditions seem to change weekly.
Second, I'm doing as much walking within the casinos as I am on the Boardwalk.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Frustrating but rewarding
Yes I was there this weekend. Crowded, bad pen, my back paws were blistered from the walking, and it seemed like I was watching 10 hands for every one I played.
And I made money.
Because all of those hands I was watching without playing were LOSERS, and even though backcounting is boring and awkward, it gets the money. And in an environment like AC it's one of the few things that does get the money. Backcounting is the remedy for bad pen; you are betting way fewer hands but you can bet more when you do get into a game.
Fortunately the Boardwalk is a benign place to walk, with it's flatness and springiness. Much better than walking out on Pacific. When I start a Boardwalk session the first thing I do is go thoroughly stretch my legs on the rails along the Boardwalk, as it decreases fatigue and increases my walking speed, resulting in more hands per hour. Seriously- moving quickly does increase your win rate in this kind of game. And the $2 jitney is one of the few things in AC that isn't a ripoff.
Yes I was there this weekend. Crowded, bad pen, my back paws were blistered from the walking, and it seemed like I was watching 10 hands for every one I played.
And I made money.
Because all of those hands I was watching without playing were LOSERS, and even though backcounting is boring and awkward, it gets the money. And in an environment like AC it's one of the few things that does get the money. Backcounting is the remedy for bad pen; you are betting way fewer hands but you can bet more when you do get into a game.
Fortunately the Boardwalk is a benign place to walk, with it's flatness and springiness. Much better than walking out on Pacific. When I start a Boardwalk session the first thing I do is go thoroughly stretch my legs on the rails along the Boardwalk, as it decreases fatigue and increases my walking speed, resulting in more hands per hour. Seriously- moving quickly does increase your win rate in this kind of game. And the $2 jitney is one of the few things in AC that isn't a ripoff.
ChefJJ
Well-Known Member
Even though I'm complaining about the walk, I prefer it to the jitney or driving. It's a good way to work off some of those comped meal calories. 
Typically, I base myself in one of the "midtown" casinos and either walk south to Hilton or north to Showboat, making stops along the way, but not both directions the same day. Then, at some point, I drive to the marina.
Being relatively local to AC, we get the news stories on TV and in the newspaper about the 4 new megacasinos to be built over the next 3-4 years. What I laugh about is AC's thinking that it will become a destination like LV, rather than primarily a daytripper for locals in the population centers from NY to DC. I suppose it's conceivable if they produce some decent games, but that's a very big IF.
Typically, I base myself in one of the "midtown" casinos and either walk south to Hilton or north to Showboat, making stops along the way, but not both directions the same day. Then, at some point, I drive to the marina.
Being relatively local to AC, we get the news stories on TV and in the newspaper about the 4 new megacasinos to be built over the next 3-4 years. What I laugh about is AC's thinking that it will become a destination like LV, rather than primarily a daytripper for locals in the population centers from NY to DC. I suppose it's conceivable if they produce some decent games, but that's a very big IF.
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
exactly and there is a subtle point here that i believe many miss (at least it evaded me for the longest). that being first off you want to really understand the nature of the difficulties presented by these less than ideal games. that way you can as you say adjust and guard against what you know can and probably will go wrong. but beyond that is the realization that the advantages are going to be smaller and often more borderline. this calls for a bit of a gamble or at least a more aggressive (steeper ramp, higher spread) bet structure for which at times one would be more conservative should the game be more ideal. and on the other hand because in these types of games the playing field is so disadvantageous then one needs to be ultra conservative according to that overbearing disadvantage.
so choosing to play these types of games requires a bit of a gamble or at least great tolerance for fluctuation and a difficult ROR.
that being the case it's not hard to see why the pro's steer clear of them.
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creeping panther
Banned
Wow, I can't believe
that anyone on this site would actually support an 8 deck game let alone a H-17 8 deck game!
You guys should know better. Shame, shame.
If you have enough time to back count these shoes than you have enough time to take vacations to locales that have games that are *Nirvana* when compared to AC.
I am concerned that most of you are just strung out gamblers and not even close to being true AP's. I don't blame AC for offering such abominations of BJ when so called intelligent players that post here will support these trash games.
Did you ever hear of just walking away?
Take that BJ vacation or 2 and go where the good games are. (And stop acting like a ploppy sucker).
Creeping Panther.
that anyone on this site would actually support an 8 deck game let alone a H-17 8 deck game!
You guys should know better. Shame, shame.
If you have enough time to back count these shoes than you have enough time to take vacations to locales that have games that are *Nirvana* when compared to AC.
I am concerned that most of you are just strung out gamblers and not even close to being true AP's. I don't blame AC for offering such abominations of BJ when so called intelligent players that post here will support these trash games.
Did you ever hear of just walking away?
Take that BJ vacation or 2 and go where the good games are. (And stop acting like a ploppy sucker).
Creeping Panther.
Doofus
Well-Known Member
95% of the people in a casino have no idea how to distinguish between "good" and "bad" games - witness the spread of that abortion called 6-5 blackjack, which would not have taken root had most people been totally oblivious to how games work.
AC's destiny doesn't lay in producing attractive games for APs, but in entertaining the ignorant masses with food, entertainment, and "exciting" games (not necessarily "good" games).
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
sounds like fun, problem with that is two vacation trips to bj paradise aren't likely to get one to the long run....... not to mention the cost of travel.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
that anyone on this site would actually support an 8 deck game let alone a H-17 8 deck game!
You guys should know better. Shame, shame.
If you have enough time to back count these shoes than you have enough time to take vacations to locales that have games that are *Nirvana* when compared to AC.
I am concerned that most of you are just strung out gamblers and not even close to being true AP's. I don't blame AC for offering such abominations of BJ when so called intelligent players that post here will support these trash games.
Did you ever hear of just walking away?
Take that BJ vacation or 2 and go where the good games are. (And stop acting like a ploppy sucker).
Creeping Panther.
Why would you say this? There are a few full-time pros based in AC, and while the games are not as profitable per hand or per hour as a good SD or DD game, there is literally no heat, you can get down enormous spreads and backcount at will. You don't have to play even one hand without an advantage, ever.
That said, I wouldn't recommend it as a destination for anyone but an East Coaster. For an East Coast green chipper it is suitable.
While I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible to make money playing these games, I reached pretty much the same conclusion as you a long time ago when I realized that I was unwilling to commit the necessary roll to win paltry sums with large standard deviation to maybe play 25 hands an hour if I'm lucky (that cuts into my free-drink comp EV lol) especially for the little time I get there in a year.
Each to his own of course.
What are the latest no-mid-shoe entry rules anyway? OK if min is less than $25?
Rules are pretty much the same as always, except Ballys going H17 now. Some 6D games around, but they are cutting off 2 to 2 1/2 decks for the most part, though occasional dealers cutting less.
After scouting out one place, found a 6D game with the dealer cutting off just over 1D. After playing one shoe, her relief came along and the next shoe was 2+ decks cut off
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Rules are pretty much the same as always, except Ballys going H17 now. Some 6D games around, but they are cutting off 2 to 2 1/2 decks for the most part, though occasional dealers cutting less.
After scouting out one place, found a 6D game with the dealer cutting off just over 1D. After playing one shoe, her relief came along and the next shoe was 2+ decks cut off
There's a popular place not on the Boardwalk that has gotten away from 2-2.5 decks cut of and back to 1.5, but some dealers have not yet gotten the memo. Literally- there was a memo. Bad pen costs the casino just like it costs us.
When you're backcounting the only difference pen makes is how many good counts you see per hour.You can make up for bad pen somewhat by increasing your bets. This raises your win rate at the expense of absolute RoR, but being we're part-timers absolute RoR isn't that important, we're more worried about trip RoR. And the higher bets are mostly offset by placing fewer bets for trip RoR calculations, when we're playing into bad pen.
Are you talking about 6D or 8D games?
When I was the there, seemed a lot of dealers didn't get the memo. One thing I noted, overall, was the higher limit tables seemed to have poorer pen.
ChefJJ
Well-Known Member
And they've been catching a lot of crap from it on the internet. Heck, I've even had a good friend who is NOT a counter complain about why they "only play with half the cards". A slight exaggeration, but I guess it's not just counters who are peeved with that.
good luck
While watching one of the dealers (pleasant, older guy) at one of the Boardwalk houses shuffle, I noticed he was having some trouble with his right hand. I asked him about it and he said he had surgery on it last year. I asked if it was carpal tunnel, and he said it was a lot worse than that (whatever that meant.) So, I took the opportunity to say "you know, if you cut off less cards, you wouldn't have to shuffle so often."
He said they have to cut off 2 decks so they don't risk running out of cards. I gave him a puzzled look and he then explained that at a full table, if there are a bunch of splits and small cards come out, the shoe could run out of cards. I didn't know what to say to that, other than I was the only one at the table, so I didn't think that would be a problem. I suppose I could have also said if there were only low cards left, I'd have been long gone from that table
He said they have to cut off 2 decks so they don't risk running out of cards. I gave him a puzzled look and he then explained that at a full table, if there are a bunch of splits and small cards come out, the shoe could run out of cards. I didn't know what to say to that, other than I was the only one at the table, so I didn't think that would be a problem. I suppose I could have also said if there were only low cards left, I'd have been long gone from that table