I went from Hi-lo to AOII and then on ZGs suggestion went to ZEN. Its going well even though speed is not yet at Hi-lo counting speed. I can follow most fast dealers ok, but would like to take it to the next level - I would like to learn to be able to talk while counting - any suggestions on learning to do this? Slow rate on CVBJ? I'm not talking about ordering a drink, or pleasantries with the dealer or others, but keeping track of the RC, and doing TC calculations and bet sizing WHILE actually maintaining a running conversation - are there those on this board who have mastered this? Where to start?
Counting while talking
- Thread starter jimmtech
- Start date
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
It helps to try to store the count with a different part of your mind rather than the verbal part you use to talk.
Don't "tell" yourself the count in hour head, instead try to "see" it. Hell, if you play video games, imagine a little heads up display with the count on it.
That can get you past the hump of "storing" the count while talking. But actually "computing" the count can still be trickier. No particular advice for ya there.
And of course, talking about numbers like sports scores makes it extra tricky. It often helps to focus on putting the count into cold storage before you start talking, in order to retrieve it later.
Don't "tell" yourself the count in hour head, instead try to "see" it. Hell, if you play video games, imagine a little heads up display with the count on it.
That can get you past the hump of "storing" the count while talking. But actually "computing" the count can still be trickier. No particular advice for ya there.
And of course, talking about numbers like sports scores makes it extra tricky. It often helps to focus on putting the count into cold storage before you start talking, in order to retrieve it later.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
There's a great article about this on Snyder's website:
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Blackjack_Card_Counting_Tips.htm
-Sonny-
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Blackjack_Card_Counting_Tips.htm
-Sonny-
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That's funny, because I find singing even easier than talking, when counting. Probably because you already know the song, it's preprogrammed and might not interfere as much with real-time information.
Thanks Sonny - this is exactly what I was looking for! I tried picturing the running count in my head while chanting and 6 decks took almost 5 minutes instead of 2-1/2. OMG its hard - well, back to practicing!
What a thrill it would be to annoy and distract others for a change!
What a thrill it would be to annoy and distract others for a change!
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Practice is definitely key, but one thing that wasn't mentioned is that you will actually need a greater level of practice if you want to keep up a fake persona.
Questions such as "What do you do?" and "Where are you from?" should have rehearsed and completely false answers. Pick a persona and practice with it - a lot.
Where are you from? Pick a big city that you know reasonably well. You should at least know some major landmarks. How long have you lived there? The better you know the city, the longer you have lived there. Having only lived there a few months gives you an excuse to not having seen the Met or not knowing where the Staples Center is. What do you do? Pick a profession that is roughly equal to your betting level. CFO's of midsized corporations don't play nickels, and librarians don't bet purple chips. Create little details about your life and always have a few funny stories to tell.
Ask yourself these questions and tell yourself these stories over and over again. And by over and over again, I mean hundreds of times. If you get bored with it, embellish the story and try again. Practice manouvering the conversation towards your 2-3 stock stories: "You're from Buffalo? I was just there for a power plant inspection last year. You wouldn't believe what I found in the ventilation duct ..." or "You think that's bad luck? The worst luck in my life happened right before this big meeting with the CFO ..."
If you're unimaginative, or if you're a bad liar, you can always start off by stealing your friend's persona. Think of an old friend, someone who has no connection to you and just pretend you're him. Tell the stories your friend repeats all the time; act like he would.
Questions such as "What do you do?" and "Where are you from?" should have rehearsed and completely false answers. Pick a persona and practice with it - a lot.
Where are you from? Pick a big city that you know reasonably well. You should at least know some major landmarks. How long have you lived there? The better you know the city, the longer you have lived there. Having only lived there a few months gives you an excuse to not having seen the Met or not knowing where the Staples Center is. What do you do? Pick a profession that is roughly equal to your betting level. CFO's of midsized corporations don't play nickels, and librarians don't bet purple chips. Create little details about your life and always have a few funny stories to tell.
Ask yourself these questions and tell yourself these stories over and over again. And by over and over again, I mean hundreds of times. If you get bored with it, embellish the story and try again. Practice manouvering the conversation towards your 2-3 stock stories: "You're from Buffalo? I was just there for a power plant inspection last year. You wouldn't believe what I found in the ventilation duct ..." or "You think that's bad luck? The worst luck in my life happened right before this big meeting with the CFO ..."
If you're unimaginative, or if you're a bad liar, you can always start off by stealing your friend's persona. Think of an old friend, someone who has no connection to you and just pretend you're him. Tell the stories your friend repeats all the time; act like he would.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
That’s the spirit! The more you practice, the sooner you’ll get there. It’s just a matter of doing as little “thinking” as possible while counting the cards. The less you have to think about, the less distractions you will have from your conversation. Most of the cards should cancel out so you shouldn’t have to do much counting. You recently switched systems so it might take a while to get a feel for the new card values. Occasionally you will have to adjust the RC by 1 or 2, but most of the time there should be some sort of cancellation happening. If you practice before your sessions and keep everything fresh in your mind then you shouldn’t have to do much thinking for the TC conversions or bet sizes either. It should just come naturally.
Right now your talking is interrupting your thinking, which is screwing up your counting. With enough practice it will happen the other way around. Your counting will almost be on auto-pilot. Only occasionally will you have to interrupt your conversation to think, “Okay, the TC is…3. Bet two greens and a red (or whatever).” That split second of thought (okay, maybe 1-2 seconds
) is usually all it takes. The rest is just like remembering your multiplication tables – it just comes to you without any thought or calculations.-Sonny-
[EDIT – I see callipygian beat me to the punch. As he said, have everything worked out before you go so that you don’t have to think about it.]
Perfect.. When I first started out, I would see the running count in a big white number with a neon blue outline floating in front of me...Dont know why, but it was the best way I could use to carry on a convo and not loose the count.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Can't say I agree with all this. Why lie? I can tell them that I'm an engineer and I live in Connecticut and it's the absolute truth, I will not get caught in a lie and I will not blow my cover in any way. In fact my real lifestyle is the kind of thing a full-time AP might simulate for cover. Same for most of the other part-timers here.
Generally you can only get away with so much lying, so get your money's worth, only do it when there's a benefit. I'll only do it when I'm in a locals' place to explain my presence in that venue. Nobody's going to believe I'm in Wisconsin just to relax at their lovely casino.
I'm high functioning autistic, so yes and no...
Also, I have always know what day of the week, month year etc it is.. Sounds simple right? Its just there floating around glowing like a chemical stick or a neon sign. At the same time, I know what direction Im facing at any given moment.. N-E-S-W etc.. Its freakin weird.
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callipygian
Well-Known Member
Because some people are in professions which can be identified. Let's say you're a religious studies professor at UT-Austin. It's not that hard to figure out your identity. Most people aren't that bad, but I know that based on (a) my hometown, (b) college, (c) major, and (d) current location that (1) my name, (2) current home address, (3) 4 previous home addresses, (4) my workplace, (5) my two former workplaces, and (6) the price at which I bought my house can be found with Google.
Also, some people might have flaggable aspects in their lives - attending MIT for graduate school in math, for instance, might be something you want to lie to avoid discussion.
For me, I fit a little into both categories. That's why I lie. Over the years, answering with a fake name has become as natural as answering with my real name, which I use at casinos and at restaurants (my first name is pretty common and I find it more convinient to just give an easily-spelled, uncommon name to avoid ambiguity). I use my old college job as my current job but tell the truth as to where I'm from. It's not a Witness Protection Program quality identity, but it's good enough so that I have absolutely nothing memorable about me.
Except for that time that I found an opposum in the heating duct.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Most of the time they already know my identity, depending on where I'm playing. In CT or AC I need the comps. If I'm in Nevada telling them "engineer from Connecticut" doesn't tell them very much, while it does justify my bankroll. If I'm in the backwoods I tell them the same thing, but then I have to lie a little and tell them I'm here for work and killing some free time in the casino.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Ah, that is the difference. I only signed up for my first players card this year. From 2002 until about 2006, I had been getting all my rooms through poker rates, but that honeypot is drying up.
I rarely talk to people nowadays a the table, anyway. If I'm counting, I rarely stay longer than 15-20 minutes before I Wong out, and people at higher limit tables don't talk as much as people did at the $2-$5 tables.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
I had also assumed the OP meant small talk with other players, or perhaps the dealer. I usually leave if the pit boss shows any attention.
People are real chatty at the low limit tables in Vegas. More than once, one of the ploppies has taken it upon himself to introduce everyone at the table.
Usually it's good because nobody pays attention to chatty people, but occasionally it can be a huge setback when you get a blackjack on a 10-unit bet and some loud drunk announces, "That's the third time you've gotten a blackjack when you had a $50 bet out!"I even used to memorize a bunch of common misconceptions (e.g. dealer busting means bad luck for the next hand) to spout off when people blurted out stuff that drew attention to me.
The higher limit tables (even $10 sometimes, but definitely $15-$50) are much more businesslike. For better or for worse, I suppose.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
It's much more common in the Midwest where people are distractingly friendly compared to where I'm from or where you're from. It's considered totally normal to ask a stranger about their business, their family and sometimes even their religion. Especially in a place so small where everyone knows everyone else and the locals are legitimately curious about strangers. A drunk act is helpful because a lot of those types are offended by public drunkenness and won't want to make pleasant conversation with you. On the other hand a local policeman will be eager to make the other kind of conversation with you so be careful with that.