How common is Preferential Shuffling in handheld games?
- Thread starter 21forme
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cardcounter0
Well-Known Member
99% when I got pref shuffled, it was after the heat was on, and a pit boss was standing next to the table giving a signal to the dealer when to shuffle up. Sometimes, the eye in the sky would track, the phone in the pit would ring, and the floor would holler across the pit to shuffle.
Dealers are generally trying to get as many hands in per hour as they can, and are watching the clock waiting for their break, very rarely do they take it on their own to try to protect the game (except for middle aged asian women, they act the money in the tray is theirs instead of the casinos).
:laugh:
Dealers are generally trying to get as many hands in per hour as they can, and are watching the clock waiting for their break, very rarely do they take it on their own to try to protect the game (except for middle aged asian women, they act the money in the tray is theirs instead of the casinos).
:laugh:
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
shuffle up
I would have to describe pref. shuffle up in hand held games as almost anal in lv. The few times I chose to play the hand held games the dealer would shuffle almost at always at the plus count points in the deck. I thought it was coincedence or just crap luck but it happend too often for that. I was about to say something about the cut card in dd but decided to forego the hassle. It was probably just the way I look or I wasn't a local yocal that caused it but just the same it ruined my experience at dd in vegas. blackchipjim
I would have to describe pref. shuffle up in hand held games as almost anal in lv. The few times I chose to play the hand held games the dealer would shuffle almost at always at the plus count points in the deck. I thought it was coincedence or just crap luck but it happend too often for that. I was about to say something about the cut card in dd but decided to forego the hassle. It was probably just the way I look or I wasn't a local yocal that caused it but just the same it ruined my experience at dd in vegas. blackchipjim
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
I've only had it happen to me once (Slots a Fun).
It would seem that it would be difficult for a dealer to pull off lots of preferential shuffling on any game that had a cut card, whether handheld or not, so I wouldn't think it would be that common, since cut cards or common. If the dealer was shuffling early, they'd have to make some sort of excuse (which... might have bene what they were doing at SaF...)
Unfortunately, the best thing to do if you're being preferentially shuffled on is generally not to cause a stink, and just leave the unprofitable situation, and hope you didn't make a mental impact on anyone. I say unortunate because it would be really fun to raise a stink with the pit critters. Maybe get a few ploppies involved, and demand an explanation on why the deck is being shuffled early. I've noticed an extreme reticence on casino management to ever state why they're taking adverse action against me, so I can only imagine the non-excuse they'd come up with for a table of enraged ploppies on why they're disrupting the Flow of the cards!
It would seem that it would be difficult for a dealer to pull off lots of preferential shuffling on any game that had a cut card, whether handheld or not, so I wouldn't think it would be that common, since cut cards or common. If the dealer was shuffling early, they'd have to make some sort of excuse (which... might have bene what they were doing at SaF...)
Unfortunately, the best thing to do if you're being preferentially shuffled on is generally not to cause a stink, and just leave the unprofitable situation, and hope you didn't make a mental impact on anyone. I say unortunate because it would be really fun to raise a stink with the pit critters. Maybe get a few ploppies involved, and demand an explanation on why the deck is being shuffled early. I've noticed an extreme reticence on casino management to ever state why they're taking adverse action against me, so I can only imagine the non-excuse they'd come up with for a table of enraged ploppies on why they're disrupting the Flow of the cards!
Automatic Monkey
Banned
What's really nasty is when a dealer is both counting and pref shuffling. I had that happen to me up in Jackpot once. Run like hell.
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
some more advanced members have noted, if you can find the bet ramp that triggers a shuffle, you can use it to your advantage to trigger a shuffle in negative counts. then back off your ramp in positive counts, it's like a built in wonging mechanism that could be used under the right circumstances.
mind you i haven't done this before, but am prepared for it, if the dealer/pit is still on the fence about my skill - and is doing it as a precaution.
mind you i haven't done this before, but am prepared for it, if the dealer/pit is still on the fence about my skill - and is doing it as a precaution.
This has to be one of the rarest situations of all. Most dealers that can actually count, can't do it while dealing. They may be able to see counter betting characteristics and alert someone to do a skills check, but thats usually it.
Most counters for that matter cannot perform dealing duties to others and still keep an accurate count. I'm not talking about dealing hands to yourself. I'm talking about dealing to others while calling out hand totals, doing payouts, keeping count, and being able to recognize properly sized bets. Aside from Sonny and RJT, who I know can do it, my experience working with other counters would lead me to be skeptical of those that claim they can. If you can, kudos to you, you are better than most. But I'd be willing to bet against the majority that they can't do it.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Or just counting and mocking the counter.
The first year my friends and I started counting, one guy swore he could get away with a 1:20 spread using the Ace-Five count. The rest of us were playing shoe games, but he heads to the single/double deck games and proceeds to get raped. After a few hours, we went to collect him to head back to the Strip, and the dealer is just taunting him. As in, she said to us, "you should know better than to interrupt him in the middle of a high count shoe, he has enough trouble keeping the count already."
At the time we were more like
but looking back it was pretty :laugh::laugh::laugh:.Apparently my friend couldn't count fast enough - she'd deal 200+ hands/hr and he'd just totally lose the count. Then she'd suddenly slow down to 50-60 hands/hr to annoy him.
Yeah, yeah. We were a bunch of stupid noobs. :grin:
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Oh, this is the only kind of preferential shuffling, against at SaF. I was more noobish them, the first dealer might have been doing "reactive" shuffling, reshuffling on an increased bet, but the second dealer was definitely shuffling according to count.
In fact, I've never encountered reactive shuffling. Just reactive penetration-worsening. Or backoffs.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I have no idea if I can do that, as I've never tried it, and never even tried dealing blackjack without counting. Not my bag. It takes me about 10 minutes to just shuffle an 8D shoe.
But there are most definitely dealers who count while dealing. In the remote stores out West all dealers are familiar with counting and most have tried it. In a game without a cut card one of the most profitable things you can do is exert control over when the dealer shuffles. You can do it by altering the number of hands in the game, with your betting, or socially. One dealer I met, all I had to do was give her a sad smile to get her to shuffle, and a happy smile to get her to deal an extra round. :cool2:
zengrifter
Banned
Absolutely correct - first written by Thorp in BTD second edition. zg
ihate17
Well-Known Member
Play at your own pace and piss the dealer off
Your friend hopefully has figured out that just because a dealer deals at record speed, you are not required to play any faster than you wish too. If the dealer is actually dealing too fast for you, just slow things down to a crawl for a few hands and watch the dealer's reaction.
Overall you play at your top counting speed or slower (if the cards come out slow) but never is there any reason to play faster than your comfort level.
ihate17
callipygian said:
Your friend hopefully has figured out that just because a dealer deals at record speed, you are not required to play any faster than you wish too. If the dealer is actually dealing too fast for you, just slow things down to a crawl for a few hands and watch the dealer's reaction.
Overall you play at your top counting speed or slower (if the cards come out slow) but never is there any reason to play faster than your comfort level.
ihate17
Last edited by a moderator:
callipygian
Well-Known Member
We have all figured out many things since then, that being one of them. :laugh:
My wife doesn't count, but copies my bets when she does play. If I get a smoking fast dealer that I can't handle, it is not because they are too fast, it is because they get so sloppy it is hard to pay attention. My wife and I sit and talk about what we should do with our hands.
We were playing an indian casino closer to home when we got an obnoxiously fast dealer. We made her wait over 2 minutes between our two hands, soft 17 vs 6 for mine:joker: It typically only takes a few of these to make them mad enough to stop. My wife even asked her to stop dealing so fast because it made it hard for her to add up her cards and it embarrased her in front of the other players. A guy on 3rd base called the critter over and explained that my wife was getting embarrased. He told the dealer to slow down a bit, lol.