ACE location

[zengrifter]

So does 2d key carding work, or not work. That is the question

Yes. What I am saying is that you don't need to use mult-card sequence memory tricks to ID the correct keycard, because there are only two of them (not 6 or 8). Any time you pop big bets on the tail of the keycard you are 50-50 chance its the correct one. zg

 

[FrankieT]

Yes. What I am saying is that you don't need to use mult-card sequence memory tricks to ID the correct keycard, because there are only two of them (not 6 or 8). Any time you pop big bets on the tail of the keycard you are 50-50 chance its the correct one. zg

What is the viability of key carding 2D games in the thick of today's hostile casino playing environment? Better than counting I hope.

 

[zengrifter]

What is the viability of key carding 2D games in the thick of today's hostile casino playing environment? Better than counting I hope.

Maybe. But at the level I do it, its just an enhancement. I guess because I don't mnemonically ID the correct keycard. Lets ask Sonny. zg

 

[Sonny]

So does 2d key carding work, or not work. That is the question

It can, depending on the conditions. Just like with card counting, you have to find a beatable game in order for it to work. In most cases you will find that the conditions are not reliable enough to get an advantage. You will either have to find another game or change the conditions to suit your style. However, the technique can be very profitable when you get everything working just right. There’s no doubt that the technique works, just whether it can be used in a particular situation or not.

-Sonny-

 

[Canceler]

Not that I'm an expert at shuffling, but...

Just like with card counting, you have to find a beatable game in order for it to work.

I tried replicating one casino's shuffle at home, and the ace came out before the key card every time.

 

[Sonny]

I tried replicating one casino's shuffle at home, and the ace came out before the key card every time.

Depending on where the cards are located, it was either from the cutting or the stripping (or both!). You might have more luck if you only track sequences in other parts of the deck, or the shuffle may be unbeatable.

-Sonny-

 

[zengrifter]

I tried replicating one casino's shuffle at home, and the ace came out before the key card every time.

I have not found that much in 2D. zg

 

[bjcount]

Depending on where the cards are located, it was either from the cutting or the stripping (or both!). You might have more luck if you only track sequences in other parts of the deck, or the shuffle may be unbeatable.

-Sonny-

Wouldn't that be the reason to sequence at least 2 cards? I found working with just a simple shuffle (2D) that if the ace is located at a grab point, 1/2 deck grabs, most of the time the ace falls out in between the 2 card sequence or before. I found locating aces near the middle of grab points is much more predictable.
This is in my beginners ace locating view only.

BJC

 

[Sonny]

I found locating aces near the middle of grab points is much more predictable.

It is, but that can be tricky too. Each riffle brings the bottom cards towards the top and the top cards towards the bottom. As the cards approach the middle of the pack they are more likely to get reversed by the cut/strip. That’s another thing to be looking for when you are scouting shuffles. Find out how the cards move during each step of the shuffle and try to find the most reliable zones (if there are any). Be aware of what techniques are causing problems and find casinos/dealers that are consistently vulnerable.

-Sonny-

 

[bjcount]

Find out how the cards move during each step of the shuffle and try to find the most reliable zones (if there are any). Be aware of what techniques are causing problems and find casinos/dealers that are consistently vulnerable.

-Sonny-

Having read through Snyders Cookbook and McD's Ace prediction about half a dozen times each before working with the cards, would CV's Shuffle Track be a helpful tool in learning how the seq. cards work there way through the shuffle or should I stick with the actual cards and replicate the shuffle that I play most often with?
I noticed that McD quotes the results of CVST numerous times throughout the book. Would that be for the more technical/ mathematical results needed to explain the formulas ?
Thanks again for your help.
BJC

 

[bjcount]

Foiling the sequencing - asymmetry

For months I couldn't figure out why the dealers at the casino I regularly play at, after cutting the shoe in half, rotated one of the 1/2 shoe stacks 180 degrees before they shuffle. After studying up on this topic I think I figured it out. Boy, talk about foiling any sequencing there. By rotating the cards the pips are reversed on the asymmetric cards. Do you think this has any affect or would you have to go one step further and remember the position of the pips on the sequence cards too?
The shuffle is an easy track if you watch were they randomly place the four stacks (1/2d ea.) of unused cards into the discard stack. It seems to me that this shuffle, although easy to track for high card slugs, may be a poor choice for sequencing and ace location due to the rotation, would you agree?
BJC

I hope this is not too much detail for the public boards. If it is let me know and I'll delete the post.

 

[rukus]

For months I couldn't figure out why the dealers at the casino I regularly play at, after cutting the shoe in half, rotated one of the 1/2 shoe stacks 180 degrees before they shuffle. After studying up on this topic I think I figured it out. Boy, talk about foiling any sequencing there. By rotating the cards the pips are reversed on the asymmetric cards. Do you think this has any affect or would you have to go one step further and remember the position of the pips on the sequence cards too?
The shuffle is an easy track if you watch were they randomly place the four stacks (1/2d ea.) of unused cards into the discard stack. It seems to me that this shuffle, although easy to track for high card slugs, may be a poor choice for sequencing and ace location due to the rotation, would you agree?
BJC

I hope this is not too much detail for the public boards. If it is let me know and I'll delete the post.

ive just started working on ace sequencing, but why would the pip position change anything? a 3 of clubs is still a 3 of clubs, no matter which way it is turned. and if you expect an ace after seeing that 3 of clubs, why should it matter which way the 3 was turned when you saw it? especially if it is turned before any shuffling...

 

[21forme]

ive just started working on ace sequencing, but why would the pip position change anything? a 3 of clubs is still a 3 of clubs, no matter which way it is turned. and if you expect an ace after seeing that 3 of clubs, why should it matter which way the 3 was turned when you saw it? especially if it is turned before any shuffling...

If it was facing the opposite direction from what you expected, you know it was a false key.

 

[bjcount]

If it was facing the opposite direction from what you expected, you know it was a false key.

So you would say that to have 2 or more sequence cards would help eliminate some of the false keys?

 

[rukus]

So you would say that to have 2 or more sequence cards would help eliminate some of the false keys?

ive always thought to use 2 key cards, especially in multi-deck games beyond DD, like 6D or 8D... this way you are sure about the correct position. guess thats why your turned around question didnt strike me as important, because i would pay more attention to 2 key cards vs orientation of the single key card. btu i see yours and 21's point if you only use a single key card.

 

[bjcount]

ive always thought to use 2 key cards, especially in multi-deck games beyond DD, like 6D or 8D... this way you are sure about the correct position. guess thats why your turned around question didnt strike me as important, because i would pay more attention to 2 key cards vs orientation of the single key card. btu i see yours and 21's point if you only use a single key card.

Thank you for yours and 21's thoughts on my question.
Greatly appreciated
BJC

 

[rukus]

Thank you for yours and 21's thoughts on my question.
Greatly appreciated
BJC

also, just turning a pile of half the shoe wont do anything to affect the rotation relationship between even one key card and the ace. if they are right next to each other, turning half the pile (assuming the key/ace were in it) would turn both the key card and the ace, so whatever rotational relationship they had before the shuffle they would maintain after the shuffle (if it was a workable shuffle in the first place).

 

[bjcount]

also, just turning a pile of half the shoe wont do anything to affect the rotation relationship between even one key card and the ace. if they are right next to each other, turning half the pile (assuming the key/ace were in it) would turn both the key card and the ace, so whatever rotational relationship they had before the shuffle they would maintain after the shuffle (if it was a workable shuffle in the first place).

I understand what your saying about the rotation and by using two key cards there would be less false keys.

 

[Sonny]

For months I couldn't figure out why the dealers at the casino I regularly play at, after cutting the shoe in half, rotated one of the 1/2 shoe stacks 180 degrees before they shuffle. After studying up on this topic I think I figured it out. Boy, talk about foiling any sequencing there.

They don't do it because of sequencers. It is done to prevent certain types of cheaters, although it does affect some obscure forms of AP as well. It doesn't really hurt sequencers much at all. That procedure is very misunderstood among casino employees and it's almost always a waste of time.

-Sonny-

 

[bjcount]

CV Shuffle Track

They don't do it because of sequencers. It is done to prevent certain types of cheaters, although it does affect some obscure forms of AP as well. It doesn't really hurt sequencers much at all. That procedure is very misunderstood among casino employees and it's almost always a waste of time.

-Sonny-

Will CV shuffle track be useful in improving the study of where the cards fall out on any type of shuffle? After reading about the program it seems that it would produce results 100 times faster + offer detailed data, vs using the actual cards, but how do the results compare? Using 6D of cards is such a slow process, but is it worth continuing to use vs CVST?

For an example shuffle:

If I play at a casino that strips the cut offs into 4 segments and inserts them randomly into the discards, then cuts the stack in half and does a stepladder with the two original 1/2 stacks and the one new one, then cuts the new stack in two piles and performs a single R&R with 1/2d grabs, would I be able to replicate this in Shuffle track? (the randomly placed discards may be an issue)

All CV Shuffle track users opinions are appreciated.
Thank you

BJC