10 vs 10 Double

T

tedloc

Well-Known Member
I just recently read an article by Fred Renzy, where he stated that the reason you always double your 11 vs dealer 10 is that your are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand.(win 6, lose 5). Doubling the hand will not increase your odds of winning but you will have twice as much money after the 11 plays.
If this is correct, why not double 10 vs 10. Wouldn't this be an even money bet. And if it is even money, isn't this as good as it gets for a NON card counter.
 
10 v 10 reply

I never double against a ten v ten cause there is only 1 card that makes you a winner for sure - the ace !!! The ten gets you a tie only . I just do not like the play at all .:)
 
10 in the hole???

glovesetc said:
I never double against a ten v ten cause there is only 1 card that makes you a winner for sure - the ace !!! The ten gets you a tie only . I just do not like the play at all .:)
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I guess you are one who always assumes the dealer has a ten in the hole.
 
tedloc said:
I just recently read an article by Fred Renzy, where he stated that the reason you always double your 11 vs dealer 10 is that your are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand.(win 6, lose 5). Doubling the hand will not increase your odds of winning but you will have twice as much money after the 11 plays.
If this is correct, why not double 10 vs 10. Wouldn't this be an even money bet. And if it is even money, isn't this as good as it gets for a NON card counter.
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If you hit 10 vs 10 instead of doubling down. Your probability of winning the hand is more than doubled if you hit instead of doubling down.
 
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Is this a joke?

avs21 said:
11vs 10 if you hit instead of double down, the amount of times you win that hand will not double making it not profitable to hit that hand. If you hit 10 vs 10 instead of doubling. Your probability of times you win the hand is more than doubled if you hit instead m double down.
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I read your reply 6 times and still don't understand it? Must be me...
 
For 6D, S17, the EV for 7,3 vs. T is:

Hitting: 0.026088
Doubling: -0.00504

So, it's pretty much breakeven no matter what you do, although doubling makes it slightly -EV.
 
Canceler said:
For 6D, S17, the EV for 7,3 vs. T is:

Hitting: 0.026088
Doubling: -0.00504

So, it's pretty much breakeven no matter what you do, although doubling makes it slightly -EV.
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... if you want to consider the logic, when you double you give up the ability to take more hits. What if you get a 2 on your double? You would normally hit a 12 vs 10 up
 
I need an answer

Can someone answer my original question? Is 10 vs 10 an even money bet on a double down. If it is even money, isn't this a non counters play.(even money)
 
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GeorgeD said:
... if you want to consider the logic, when you double you give up the ability to take more hits. What if you get a 2 on your double? You would normally hit a 12 vs 10 up
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Of course, you would hit 12 vs 10. My original question is: Ten vs. dealer 10. Is it an even money bet if you double. Yes or no.
 
It's close, but it's a slight loser. Made into twice as large a slight loser because you're doubling your bet.

If you are counting, then it can be a good move in a positive count when there are lots of 10s and aces left.
 
tedloc said:
Of course, you would hit 12 vs 10. My original question is: Ten vs. dealer 10. Is it an even money bet if you double. Yes or no.
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No. As a non-counter, you lose money if you double. You make money if you hit.

There are rare times when a counter will make more money by doubling than by hitting.
 
tedloc said:
I just recently read an article by Fred Renzy, where he stated that the reason you always double your 11 vs dealer 10 is that your are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand. Then why not double 10 vs 10. Wouldn't this be an even money bet. And if it is even money, isn't this as good as it gets for a NON card counter.
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Here's the thing. When you double with most hands, you actually reduce the percentage of times you'll win it. But if you don't reduce it by much, you still gain more profit by doubling because of the double bet. With many hands, you win money overall whether you double or just hit. The best play is determined by which way makes more money. So it's always a case of measuring the alternatives.

Now with 10 vs. 10, you win 51.3% of the time if you just hit it (counting pushes as a half win and a half loss). If you double, you win 49.8% of the time. That's with an assumed neutral count. So hitting is the better alternative for an AP or a moron.
 
tedloc said:
I just recently read an article by Fred Renzy, where he stated that the reason you always double your 11 vs dealer 10 is that your are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand.(win 6, lose 5). Doubling the hand will not increase your odds of winning but you will have twice as much money after the 11 plays.
If this is correct, why not double 10 vs 10. Wouldn't this be an even money bet. And if it is even money, isn't this as good as it gets for a NON card counter.
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You (and Fred) are oversimplifying things. Double 10 vs 10 is not an even money bet. If the dealer gets a low card, he'll draw again and may get a better hand. If you double and get a low card, you can't draw again. There are also some issues related to the dealer peek. You have a different chance of drawing an ace on your 10 than the dealer (after he has peeked).
 
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tedloc said:
My original question is: Ten vs. dealer 10. Is it an even money bet if you double. Yes or no.
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Almost, but not quite. You will lose more often than u will win.

You'll win 42.7% of the time, lose 43% of the time and push the rest of the time if u double 10 vs 10.

In a 6D game anyway.
 
tedloc said:
you always double your 11 vs dealer 10 is that your are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand.(win 6, lose 5).
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In a 6D game, u will win 51%, lose 42.2% and push the rest.

U wanna call that a 6-5 favorite, fine with me.
 
tedloc said:
Can someone answer my original question? Is 10 vs 10 an even money bet on a double down. If it is even money, isn't this a non counters play.(even money)
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tedloc check the table in the link below, i think it may have your answer:

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix9-6ds17r4.html

Blackjack Appendix 9 - 6 decks, dealer stands on soft 17
Dealer Player Stand Hit Double
10 6,4 -0.542043 0.026796 -0.005603
10 7,3 -0.538501 0.026088 -0.005043
10 8,2 -0.539225 0.026194 -0.006360
10 9,A 0.554555 0.022689 -0.015427
10 5,5 -0.541033 0.027154 -0.004071
 
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