a layman's musing.....
- Thread starter sagefr0g
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sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
heh heh it's hard to get anyone to respond to this line of question.eps6724 said:
it's my guess that a lack of response may be a defensive posture so perhaps there are secret methods with respect to counting as opposed to just sequencing and shuffle tracking.
then again if you don't know you don't know
Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will pm us with this information. Maybe someone will take us into their confidance. Maybe we will become the two who break open the veil of secrecy. Maybe I'll flap my arms and fly to the moon!sagefr0g said:heh heh it's hard to get anyone to respond to this line of question.
it's my guess that a lack of response may be a defensive posture so perhaps there are secret methods with respect to counting as opposed to just sequencing and shuffle tracking.
then again if you don't know you don't know
As to the veil of secrecy, i doubt you'll ever discover that much on a message board so i guess you'll end up disappointed.
But if you want to know about those techniques that have already been written about, i'd suggest a couple of book (although there are plenty out there).
Firstly for just a general outline of most techniques pick up Bill Zender's 'Advantage Play for the Casino Executive' it'll give basic detail of most techniques (if not all the ones the casinos are aware of), even if there are little misconceptions here and there.
And if you want to learn a couple i'd highly recommend Arnold Snyder's 'Shuffle Tracker's Cookbook'. It's by far the best book on the subject on the market.
RJT.
But if you want to know about those techniques that have already been written about, i'd suggest a couple of book (although there are plenty out there).
Firstly for just a general outline of most techniques pick up Bill Zender's 'Advantage Play for the Casino Executive' it'll give basic detail of most techniques (if not all the ones the casinos are aware of), even if there are little misconceptions here and there.
And if you want to learn a couple i'd highly recommend Arnold Snyder's 'Shuffle Tracker's Cookbook'. It's by far the best book on the subject on the market.
RJT.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
some how i found myself remmembering this post. and a question about it came to mind. i mean the statement about having an advantage when the count drops is i think valid. thats when the aces & faces are comming out.Bojack1 said:
thing about it is wouldn't a dropping count from a positive count have more betting value than a dropping count in a zero or negative count?
i mean yeah maybe a dropping count in a negative count might produce some snappers and some winning 'normal' hands, but successful double downs would be less likely wouldn't they? and insurance bets would be out of the question. i mean i'm saying this because of QFIT's point in this link:
http://www.blackjackincolor.com/truecount6.htm
You're still thinking inside the box. What if the count was just an illusion and wasn't what it seemed in the first place? You can have a great advantage at the same time another counter may feel the need to leave the table. The premise of what is done here is commonly known. How to manipulate it, not so much.sagefr0g said:
Sonny
Well-Known Member
As long as the amount that the count drops is the same, it won’t matter. A RC dropping from +12 to +2 would be the same as a RC of –2 dropping to –12 because that particular section of cards has the same count (-10). The number of successful doubles would be the same because the ratio of high:low cards is the same. If you knew that those big cards were coming then you could make the correct insurance decisions and still have the gain from that too. If you weren’t expecting them then you would miss out on those bets and miss some of the slug’s value. Basically, it doesn’t matter where you put it in the shoe, that –10 slug has the same value as long as you play through it the same way.sagefr0g said:
I must have missed that question from before. Yes, there are non-tracking, non-sequencing tricks that can give you an advantage in an ASM/CSM games but they do not involve card counting. As always, they are only effective under certain rare conditions.sagefr0g said:
-Sonny-
Thanks for bringing this back up. This topic is something I contemplated recently and probably wouldn't have found this thread, despite my handiness with the Search feature heresagefr0g said:
I visualized this as a simple linear X-Y graph, with X being the card dealt and Y being the resulting Running Count. As a counter, you position yourself properly in a high count, assuming it will drop (or revert to the mean). However, as a player, you are at an advantage whenever the count drops. This is represented on the graph I described above as a negative slope.
Finding that negative slope, preferably at the crest, is the goal. "How?" is another question. This is where I stumble.
Bojack, you really offer some great insight and information in all the posts you respond to. Thank you!Bojack1 said:
This thread really confirms my suspicions as well as my play in these situations of which I had to try though testing the waters, but does not come out very often. Without the details, in some moderately exploitable shuffles (details purposely omitted), the times I follow a large negative slug (1/2d & up slug with many tens), once it begins to come out I jump my bet 4u to 6u (depends on size of slug) and work it down as the tens come out. It feels really strange pushing out the money in these negative counts, but its excellent camo as well using the knowledge which lies before our very eyes. It doesn't work all the time and have gotten into some losing situations, but more times then not, it's profitable. When the time comes that I feel my accuracy has improved, I would probably increase my start of slug bet. No wonger would be at the table to see it because the count would be so low
. If you play all, how many times have you seen the TC drop like a rock?
I'm by far no expert (or math guy), just my learning through experience.
BJC
blazin22
Active Member
I hope I don't upset anyone by posting this, I've been giving this allot of thought lately. Recently I've adjusted my game to include tracking the extremely weak shuffles on offer here in the uk with some very promising results so far. My previous research brought me to this post and it didn't occur to me exactly what you meant to begin with. Its now occurred to me that perhaps you're alluding to an attempt at sequencing a set of cards before and immediately after a potentially lucrative play zone and betting according to that?Bojack1 said: