A shoe with no fives

[tensplitter]

What would the advantage be if there's a 6 deck shoe with no 5-value cards in it?

 

[zengrifter]

What would the advantage be if there's a 6 deck shoe with no 5-value cards in it?

About 5%, I reckon. Am I high? zg

 

[Canceler]

Am I high? zg

Wouldn't surprise me at all if you were! :grin:

Seriously, removing all the fives, and not replacing them with anything, I get just over 2%.

 

[Jack_Black]

a game that is opposite of spanish 21? sounds like a game those dirty socialist democrats would come up with. Using my tax dollars!!

 

[aslan]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if you were! :grin:

Seriously, removing all the fives, and not replacing them with anything, I get just over 2%.

In my simplistic way, I get 2% simply by ratcheting a single deck count up by four small cards. But it may have farther reaching consequences than just augmenting the count. In computer analysis of bj, aren't the fives key to understanding player advantage?

 

[aslan]

Every 5 that's come out of the deck adds 0.67% to the player's expected return. (In a single deck game, anyway.) That means that, all other things being equal, having one 5 gone from the deck gives a player a small advantage over the house. http://www.presidentialsuitecasino.com/Blackjack-Card-Counting-and-Why-the-5s-are-the-Most-Important-Cards-in-the-Deck.html

(Just a quick and dirty search. I don't vouch for the reliability of this site or the statement above. Aslan)


4 X 0.67 = 2.68%

 

[NightOwl]

My WAG is 4% - 4.5%, depending on rules, penetration, and bet spread.

 

[N&B]

Waaaayy back in the 60's, (read by me in 1981 after his death in 1979) Lawrence Revere did a study of one deck without 5's and without Aces. In a rule-set with a 0.02% House Advantage, Revere reported then a gain of 3.02% by removing all four 5's.

If those figures are even close in today's games, then removing 24 Fives from a 6-Deck shoe with a rule-set that provides a 0.52% House advantage would yield a 2.5% Player Advantage.

Note that each Five in a single-deck game are worth more *each*. And that to have an advantage in the 0.52% House Advantage game, there would need to be a shortage of 5 Fives (+0.10%) considering the 6 decks. With better game-rules, fewer than 5.

The bigger caveat is that there is not also a shortage of Aces (considering the original study). But consider that if a 5 gets burned in the 6-decker, that the H.A. drops from 1/2% to 3/8%. And in my local game with a 0.33% H.A. the game improves to about 0.21% H.A.