zoomie said:
This is because ? 
A Tip on Tipping
- Thread starter apex
- Start date
Because I don't want to get myself and/or the dealer arrested. To the camera, the dealer mispaying me and then receiving a tip from me (specifically, in stores where dealers keep their tips) is indistinguishable from the dealer stealing from the casino and splitting the loot with me. Even in stores where the tips are pooled, tipping a mispaying dealer has a look of thanking the dealer for the mispay, and if that dealer is being evaluated by that tape it's going to be seen more negatively, like I'm taunting the house, and it could be taken out on the dealer.
I only tip about 1 or 2 dollars an hour. To maximize its value, I do it in a high count and let it ride if it wins and the count is still high. If someone else is tipping often I'm not going to tip at all. I've seen ploppies tip $1 every hand. That's just like a $1 ante, making blackjack the worst game in the house for them. Do you tip your boss every time you get your paycheck?
That is why you wait for a while to tip him or her. When he or she dealt the next Blackjack to you, it is time for you to thank him or her. A perfect excuse. Even someone reviewing the tape somehow picks up things happened 15 or 30 minutes ago, he or she still got good argument to defense himself or herself if being summoned to the superior.
I DID check my ethical code before I posted that.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
moo321 said:
I DID check my ethical code before I posted that.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
moo321 said:
I DID check my ethical code before I posted that.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
"Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. " (Deuteronomy 24:14)
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." (James 5:4)
According to my ethical code, it's wrong to exploit workers, especially poor people. And most of these dealers, if they aren't tipped, are minimum wage or less, especially outside of Nevada.
I'm not saying we have to tip someone what they want, or to the point that they are wealthy. But it won't kill you to tip a couple bucks here and there.
The dealers, unlike waiters, are not providing a service worthy of a tip, nor are their any guidelines established for what would constitute a proper tip. It might even be argued that waiters do not provide a service worthy of a tip, and often they don't, but it has become so ingrained in our culture as to constitute a part of the price of a meal, and 10 to 15 percent has become a standard minimum guideline depending on the circumstances (lunch counter, coffee shop, restaurant, etc.).
Tipping in gambling is customary for winners, especially large winners, you might argue, but their is nothing expected in the sense of it being a component of the price for gambling. If anyone is abusing the worker or failing to pay his wage, it is the casino and no one else.
It is because of the "expectation" or "hope" of large tips that a person might be persuaded to accept one of these minimum wage jobs, and because of the casino's perception that hiring is no problem, they oblige by paying extremely low wages. If you want the casinos to be forced to pay a living wage, stop tipping. It is not your obligation.
Personally, I prefer to tip the waitresses who come around to the tables, and I do feel generous when I win a large amount, although I don't feel my winning has anything whatsoever to do with the dealer. Part of my cover is to tip modestly when I win smaller amounts, and I do perceive that slowing it's becoming an expectation of dealers, although I don't have the foggiest idea why. Monkey see, monkey do, I suppose.
That's my take on it anyway, and I do consider myself to be a moral person.
I rarely tip, because if you give a red after winning 4 grand a lot of dealers don't appreciate it at all, and tipping green+ is far too expensive.
I generally tip after mispays and that's about it. And btw, that's not unusual for ploppies to do. I've seen plenty of ploppies snicker then throw the dealer a tip after getting a mispay, and just 2 nights ago I saw a guy toss the dealer a tip, grab his chips (without coloring) and leave right after a big (to him) mispay.
The most I ever tipped in a session was like 100 bucks, and that was after like 2 grand in mispays after playing all night
The most I ever tipped a single dealer was probably like 300 bucks. Got around 5 grand in mispays out of him over a couple months until i burned out the game and got barred from the place.
I generally tip after mispays and that's about it. And btw, that's not unusual for ploppies to do. I've seen plenty of ploppies snicker then throw the dealer a tip after getting a mispay, and just 2 nights ago I saw a guy toss the dealer a tip, grab his chips (without coloring) and leave right after a big (to him) mispay.
The most I ever tipped in a session was like 100 bucks, and that was after like 2 grand in mispays after playing all night
The most I ever tipped a single dealer was probably like 300 bucks. Got around 5 grand in mispays out of him over a couple months until i burned out the game and got barred from the place.
1. A casino tipper is NOT a wage giver. ONLY where it is expected that one reimburse another for services rendered, could one view a tip in terms of a wage (such as, bellboy, valet, waiter, maid, cabbie, etc). The dealer renders me no service. He is paid by the casino to deal to me for the purpose of my taking an inferior position in a gambling transaction. He is being paid by the casino to facilitate the extraction of my money! And you say I owe HIM?! I should rather curse him for acting as agent of the casino in trying to take my hard earned cash-- and don't call it entertainment-- I do not find it entertaining to forfeit my money.
Nothing could be more naive than to imagine that one actually owes a dealer for performing his job. I don't tip my grocer when she tallies my grocery bill. I don't tip my bus driver when I get to my stop. I don't tip the Sears salesman when I purchase a new TV. I don't tip the pilot when he lands my airplane safely on the ground. I'll be darned if I feel the need to tip a dealer who acts as agent to a casino that wants only to take all my money, even my life savings if possible, and give me nothing in return but a handful of comps to try and entice me to lose even more of my money. The wage of the dealer is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the casino.
2. But if everyone stopped tipping, the casino would have a difficult time getting anyone to work for it, unless they paid a decent wage. Good idea! It may be our responsibility to all refuse to tip in solidarity. In this way our voices will be heard. But if that does not happen, just consider it your personal responsibility to not tip. It's like voting even when you think your vote will not count. It's your civic responsibility.
All that being said, I do tip modestly. It's more a charitable thing to do, or for cover, not an obligatory thing. I also tip extra to waitresses who are having a hard time making ends meet, even the lousy ones. Again, it's not obligatory to give extra, it's a charitable thing.
PS-- If you tip out of charity, consider saving that tip money and contributing it to the relief of starving children in the Sudan through a reputable charity. It would do a lot more good than giving it to a dealer IMHO.
I'm glad we had this discussion. I have become convinced that I should discontinue tipping dealers altogether, except where needed for cover. The kids need it more.
Nothing could be more naive than to imagine that one actually owes a dealer for performing his job. I don't tip my grocer when she tallies my grocery bill. I don't tip my bus driver when I get to my stop. I don't tip the Sears salesman when I purchase a new TV. I don't tip the pilot when he lands my airplane safely on the ground. I'll be darned if I feel the need to tip a dealer who acts as agent to a casino that wants only to take all my money, even my life savings if possible, and give me nothing in return but a handful of comps to try and entice me to lose even more of my money. The wage of the dealer is ENTIRELY the responsibility of the casino.
2. But if everyone stopped tipping, the casino would have a difficult time getting anyone to work for it, unless they paid a decent wage. Good idea! It may be our responsibility to all refuse to tip in solidarity. In this way our voices will be heard. But if that does not happen, just consider it your personal responsibility to not tip. It's like voting even when you think your vote will not count. It's your civic responsibility.
All that being said, I do tip modestly. It's more a charitable thing to do, or for cover, not an obligatory thing. I also tip extra to waitresses who are having a hard time making ends meet, even the lousy ones. Again, it's not obligatory to give extra, it's a charitable thing.
PS-- If you tip out of charity, consider saving that tip money and contributing it to the relief of starving children in the Sudan through a reputable charity. It would do a lot more good than giving it to a dealer IMHO.
I'm glad we had this discussion. I have become convinced that I should discontinue tipping dealers altogether, except where needed for cover. The kids need it more.
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That's right. People who work for a living doing tasks you consider menial are beneath your contempt.
Get off your high horse. Without them, you'd have no blackjack. Just like without garbagemen, what would you do with your trash? There are countless examples of how your life would be negatively impacted if all of these folks out there you consider to be equivalent to something you'd scrap off the bottom of your shoe were to disappear. Just because somebody does a job that you wouldn't choose as a career, doesn't mean they are worthy of poverty.
Elitist folk like you who consider themselves to be so far above people who work for a living make me sick. :flame:
Get off your high horse. Without them, you'd have no blackjack. Just like without garbagemen, what would you do with your trash? There are countless examples of how your life would be negatively impacted if all of these folks out there you consider to be equivalent to something you'd scrap off the bottom of your shoe were to disappear. Just because somebody does a job that you wouldn't choose as a career, doesn't mean they are worthy of poverty.
Elitist folk like you who consider themselves to be so far above people who work for a living make me sick. :flame: