About splitting 10s...

[smithj]

OK, I don't split 10s, in other words, I don't use those indices because I think it is not a very "smart" play (not only because of the heat)... However, I was just curious about something...

Let's say we split them with the TC >= +5; then you get another 10, would you split them again? let's say until the 4 splits limit if its the case?

J.

 

[daddybo]

OK, I don't split 10s, in other words, I don't use those indices because I think it is not a very "smart" play (not only because of the heat)... However, I was just curious about something...

Let's say we split them with the TC >= +5; then you get another 10, would you split them again? let's say until the 4 splits limit if its the case?

J.

You should split them as long as the Indices indicate you should after each new card is dealt. In Real Life, I rarely would split them more than once. (not counting tournaments). Having said that, I usually don't split tens because of the attention it generates.. but it is a good play EV wise.

 

[smithj]

You should split them as long as the Indices indicate you should after each new card is dealt.

Makes sense... Thanks!

 

[aslan]

Since this thread is basically answered, I wonder if there is an index for splitting fives. I mean, I can see when it would be stupid to double down, but is there an index for splitting them. I'm thinking there must be if you are for some reason not wonging out in a very negative count. Hit me, Daddybo! :laugh:

 

[daddybo]

Since this thread is basically answered, I wonder if there is an index for splitting fives. I mean, I can see when it would be stupid to double down, but is there an index for splitting them. I'm thinking there must be if you are for some reason not wonging out in a very negative count. Hit me, Daddybo! :laugh:

Not that I know of... If it's that negative... You would be hitting 17.:laugh:

P.S. I just rememberd a time I had two hands out... the first one was 5,5 and the second one was 8,3. dealer was 10 up. I hit the first hand and received another 5, for 15 total. The index was a borderline stand, but I knew the next card wasn't paint... and I needed a 10 for the next hand. So I held my breath and hit the 15 for yet another 5. 20 total. Whew! Stand. I proceeded to double the next hand. The dealer flips his hole card to show an 8 for an 18. He pays my four card twenty and and flips my down card over ... and viola' a King! I know this didn't have anything to do with splitting fives, but its nice when everything works like its supposed to. :laugh:

 

[Sharky]

OK, I don't split 10s, in other words, I don't use those indices because I think it is not a very "smart" play (not only because of the heat)

next time, think of splitting tens when count appropriate as:

your first card of each hand is a 10

50% of the remaining cards are 10's and Aces

what is not 'smart' about that situation?

the only 'smart' decision not to do it is the HEAT:devil:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Since this thread is basically answered, I wonder if there is an index for splitting fives. I mean, I can see when it would be stupid to double down, but is there an index for splitting them. I'm thinking there must be if you are for some reason not wonging out in a very negative count. Hit me, Daddybo! :laugh:

It would require a special count to want to split 5's, like if you know there were all 6's left and the dealer showed 10.

Regarding the 10-splitting, it's such a valuable play I'm not willing to not use it. It can draw heat, but so can insurance and surrendering. Some places do not allow you to resplit them.

 

[aslan]

It would require a special count to want to split 5's, like if you know there were all 6's left and the dealer showed 10.

I suspected as much. I wonder when it becomes a legitimate cover play based on normal count alone, if ever, or maybe it would just ring bells for someone who usually played perfect basic strategy. That's the trouble with cover plays; they often stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[assume_R]

I suspected as much. I wonder when it becomes a legitimate cover play based on normal count alone, if ever, or maybe it would just ring bells for someone who usually played perfect basic strategy. That's the trouble with cover plays; they often stick out like a sore thumb.

Well, remember that the Splitting EV would have to be greater than not just the hitting EV and standing EV, but even greater than the doubling EV! And at high counts, doubling a 10 versus anything is extremely valuable.

If the count is high, and you think there's a high chance that doubling would give you a 20 or 21, would you ever really want two 5's?

 

[21forme]

Much ado about nothing?

Having played 600+ hours in the last year, I can recall 2 opportunities where the count was high enough to warrant splitting tens. One I took (and lost) and the other I didn't because it was not conducive to the venue where it occurred. Seems to be a relatively low frequency play for all the hoopla about it.

On a related note, I recently doubled on A9 v 6 and cleared the table

 

[psyduck]

On a related note, I recently doubled on A9 v 6 and cleared the table

Good job! Did the dealer leave the table too?

 

[jack.jackson]

Well, remember that the Splitting EV would have to be greater than not just the hitting EV and standing EV, but even greater than the doubling EV! And at high counts, doubling a 10 versus anything is extremely valuable.

If the count is high, and you think there's a high chance that doubling would give you a 20 or 21, would you ever really want two 5's?

Provided, if there were an index for splitting 5's it would be against a 5 or 6. And providedI, you knew the rest of the cards, were face-cards, it would at best, have the same EV as doubling. But then again, if resplitting is allowed(x4) there just may be an index high enough to warrant splitting opposed to doubling, IDK.

I dont even think theres a option to split 5's in the "Dealers Hole-Card Strategy?"

 

[jack.jackson]

OK, I don't split 10s, in other words, I don't use those indices because I think it is not a very "smart" play (not only because of the heat)... However, I was just curious about something...

Let's say we split them with the TC >= +5; then you get another 10, would you split them again? let's say until the 4 splits limit if its the case?

J.

You'll usually, make these plays with MaxBets on the table, so be careful, in the sake of both camo and BR.These are big RA plays. Be conservative, and dont be too agressive with these plays. For example, if your TC drops to +5 on the 3rd split t, i like to find myself standing even if i have the option to split a fourth time. It seems to pan ouut better. In practice, theres been many cases over the years where i would of 3 Maxbets instead of losing 4 had i just been a little less agressive. And at $100 a pop, thats a difference of $700.00. So be careful

 

[smithj]

Regarding the 10-splitting, it's such a valuable play I'm not willing to not use it. It can draw heat, but so can insurance and surrendering. Some places do not allow you to resplit them.

I don't see how can insurance or surrendering can draw heat... most ploppies use both options all the time... On the other hand, for the brain of a dealer or supervisor that doesn't know or understand very well how counting works, surrendering or insuring a high bet (at high counts for us) would be totally understandable considering that for them, the player (us) is just trying to not lose all his chips...

You'll usually, make these plays with MaxBets on the table, so be careful, in the sake of both camo and BR.These are big RA plays. Be conservative, and dont be too agressive with these plays. For example, if your TC drops to +5 on the 3rd split t, i like to find myself standing even if i have the option to split a fourth time. It seems to pan ouut better. In practice, theres been many cases over the years where i would of 3 Maxbets instead of losing 4 had i just been a little less agressive. And at $100 a pop, thats a difference of $700.00. So be careful

Thank you for the good advice.

 

[aslan]

Well, remember that the Splitting EV would have to be greater than not just the hitting EV and standing EV, but even greater than the doubling EV! And at high counts, doubling a 10 versus anything is extremely valuable.

If the count is high, and you think there's a high chance that doubling would give you a 20 or 21, would you ever really want two 5's?

Not sure I follow your logic. I think we're talking about two different things.

 

[21forme]

I don't see how can insurance or surrendering can draw heat... most ploppies use both options all the time...

While I've seen ploppies surrender things like 12 v 7, etc., I don't think I've ever seen anyone but an AP use surrender correctly.

 

[smithj]

While I've seen ploppies surrender things like 12 v 7, etc., I don't think I've ever seen anyone but an AP use surrender correctly.

Totally agree... but "using it correctly" doesn't mean that we will always get the expected results while they are watching (in the short run)...