AC -- looking to play breakeven for comps -- thoughts?

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#1
Hi everybody, new to these boards and to advantage blackjack overall, I've looked through recent threads here but nobody talked much about AC conditions.

Seemed like Ocean is cutting off around 1/8 decks in its shoe games, DAS, no RSA, only three hands on splits, H17, the calculator I looked at said it was 0.65% house edge off the top.

I'm playing Red 7, but only know the first few indices. I'm spreading 1-10 with a $10 unit, although it didn't seem like the $100 in green got noticed at all so I might spread up to to $150-200 next time I go.

I'm not really sure how to calculate my edge either assuming I play-all or that I wong out after say, four decks if my count is more negative than it "should" be at that point (in Red 7 terms, I'm starting with an initial count of -16, so after four decks I should be at -8, if I'm at anything smaller than that then I wong out). I'm also not trying to playing blackjack for income, more just trying to build up some nice comps to enjoy AC several trips a year -- so I'm playing rated.

Any thoughts on any of this? Are there must play/must avoid stores I should try in AC? I assume the Borgata is where I'd graduate in stakes if I happened to run real good?
 

paymypush

Well-Known Member
#2
If you do graduate in stakes try Hard Rock. The $25 minimum tables are S17, 6 deck and offer late surrender. All tables had surrender when they first opened but no more. For those unaware, if you play unrated you are restricted to a max bet of 10x the table minimum just like the Borg.

Resorts has S17 tables at $10 minimums except when it's very busy. I've seen them many times even on Saturdays.
 
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MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#4
Not really, no -- I played about 12 hours of poker + 6 hours of red chip blackjack in April and got Sunday through Friday nights for just the resort fee, and a $30 freebet/$20 meal ticket two times between now and June 4.

Overall seems like AC is hurting enough that I can probably get pretty similar offers at any of the properties for red-chip play, and maybe green chips would get me Saturdays? Do their algorithms parse seat-time as valuable to them, or just how much you're wagering?
 

paymypush

Well-Known Member
#5
paymypush said:
If you do graduate in stakes try Hard Rock. The $25 minimum tables are S17, 6 deck and offer late surrender. All tables had surrender when they first opened but no more. For those unaware, if you play unrated you are restricted to a max bet of 10x the table minimum just like the Borg.

Resorts has S17 tables at $10 minimums except when it's very busy. I've seen them many times even on Saturdays.
After spending a long weekend in AC I have an update on blackjack at Hard Rock. Surrender is no longer available in this casino. When the casino first opened it was offered at every table. Then, some months ago, it was discontinued at the $10 H17 tables. Now it's gone from the $25 S17 tables and, I'm told, the high limit room. I did not check high limit myself but heard the pit crew say it.

I happened to be back counting when a player wished to surrender and was told no. I also noticed that the half dozen CSMs have been removed. All tables on the main floor are outfitted with ASMs while the high limit room remains hand shuffled.
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#6
I also went down this weekend -- Ocean's pen is still pretty good AFAICT, I'm really new to trying to count, but it appears to me they're cutting off around one deck out of eight. Ended up winning there and dumping most of my winnings at the Trop when Ocean's didn't want to give us a good rate for Saturday night but we wanted to stay in town, so we went to a nice bed and breakfast right across from the Trop that we stayed at last summer.

The conditions at the Trop seemed like they might've been okay walking up -- I had a super fast dealer who made a similar cut to what I had been getting at Ocean's, but he got tapped about ten hands in and the new dealer was brutal in all sorts of ways -- extremely deliberate, tried to pay me a green for a black chip bet, immediately called out the black action to the pit boss, cut off more like 2-2.5 decks, so I called it a night.

On top of the Trop feeling sweaty as all get out, the cocktail service is miserable -- we waited an hour for a drink when we first sat down. Won't be going back there anytime soon for sure!
 
#7
MrFatCat said:
I also went down this weekend -- Ocean's pen is still pretty good AFAICT, I'm really new to trying to count, but it appears to me they're cutting off around one deck out of eight. Ended up winning there and dumping most of my winnings at the Trop when Ocean's didn't want to give us a good rate for Saturday night but we wanted to stay in town, so we went to a nice bed and breakfast right across from the Trop that we stayed at last summer.

The conditions at the Trop seemed like they might've been okay walking up -- I had a super fast dealer who made a similar cut to what I had been getting at Ocean's, but he got tapped about ten hands in and the new dealer was brutal in all sorts of ways -- extremely deliberate, tried to pay me a green for a black chip bet, immediately called out the black action to the pit boss, cut off more like 2-2.5 decks, so I called it a night.

On top of the Trop feeling sweaty as all get out, the cocktail service is miserable -- we waited an hour for a drink when we first sat down. Won't be going back there anytime soon for sure!
DelPark pen at 0.5 on 8 decks (at least from the dealers I saw). $10 mins. Hand shuffle. All the PA rules. Not asked if I had players card. Given proximity to AC, may be worth a visit.
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#8
D0nnieD0minos said:
DelPark pen at 0.5 on 8 decks (at least from the dealers I saw). $10 mins. Hand shuffle. All the PA rules. Not asked if I had players card. Given proximity to AC, may be worth a visit.
Thanks for the heads up -- it's about the same distance as AC from my house. We may give it a shot. How's the rest of the place? Food, ambiance, smoke level, etc? I'm bringing a better half and she's somewhat picky about gambling houses.
 
#9
It's a racino. Two floors. Better games up the escalator. Haven't eaten there but restaurants look decent. No smoke when I was there... But may just be because there were few players.
 
#10
I’m looking to collaborate a bit on AC conditions, so I’ll offer what I’ve observed recently. If you want to respond here or PM me, would be nice to share info. For full disclosure, I’ve just begun considering myself an AP in February 2020 with about 200 hours of time on the floors and a positive bankroll so far, but I’ve been a regular in AC for 30 years.

Ocean- best conditions with no visible heat or attention to bet spreads from $25 - $300. I believe only casino in AC with surrender. S17 at $25 and up. Having been bankrupt twice, they seem hungry and accommodative to bigger play.
Bally’s- Caesar’s-Harrahs - the worst conditions in AC mainly due to CSMs. You will be hard pressed to find a table without CSM unless you are in high roller room.
Resorts or Trop - no report yet, next on my list
Borgata - I think they have figured me out but they make so much money they are leaving me alone for now. I play rated. They provide the best comps and best buffet in AC. Need to not to be greedy here and see how long I can make this last. Plus, I get free rooms and wife likes it best there so this is base camp to conquer the rest of the town. S17 @ $25 and up
Nugget - frankly, I play craps there because they allow 10x odds. This is the only casino that I allow myself to gamble anymore. I have a host that invites me to craps and bj tourneys for free so I don’t want to burn this one. Their player development has support to buy players. They have S17 but I don’t AP there so don’t know about heat. Would like to figure out another AP angle other than BJ that I can use here.

Let me know any questions.
 
#12
Forgot about that one. Visited once about a month ago for a few hours. Played about 10 shoes varying my bet about 1-6 units. Didn’t feel any heat - was nice that the pit boss shift change happened during my visit.

Thy give $50 free slot play to new members.

Need more time to give a more accurate report but at $25 they have S17, no insurance.

For those not familiar with AC, there is nothing less than 6 deck and BJ always pays 3:2. No single or double deck games I’m aware of.
 

MJGolf

Well-Known Member
#16
Quick question..........is AC really so easy to find S17 games at that lower bet level? They aren't mostly H17 like Vegas has become?
 

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
#17
MJGolf said:
Quick question..........is AC really so easy to find S17 games at that lower bet level? They aren't mostly H17 like Vegas has become?
They're mostly H17, but a few places have S17 at $25 and up.

@Southbound -- I've not been playing since COVID, but I certainly appreciate anything you're willing to share. TBH, I had been shifting more of my gambling to poker at the Borgata when Ocean shut their poker room, since I generally felt like the blackjack conditions were better at Ocean (I like to have a poker room both to provide a reason to exit shoes, a different profitable opportunity, break up the monotony, and so on).
 
#18
The Ocean has a cluster of about 5 tables outside of the HR room that are S17. They are usually $25, but maybe sometimes lower. Borgata has more of them at $25 during the week but they are usually $50+ when busy on a weekend.

Since I’ve been a rated gambler for 30 years in AC, I have this history to offset their suspicions of me. I think I stated earlier in this thread that I’ve just started to become an AP earlier this year. Once they identify me as an AP, and the counter measures are too harrassing, I figure I’ll be in the Borgata poker room as well. The poker room is still closed, as of a couple weeks ago.
 
#19
BTW, I’ve been noticing at the Borgata penetration is terrible - cutting off 2+ decks and not just targeting me. They seem to be doing this as a general rule. They have two lines on the side of the shoe to indicate where the dealer should be cutting (between the lines). If they cut between the lines, they would be cutting 1-1.5 decks. They have been instructed to go way beyond both lines. All the dealers are doing it.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#20
Southbound said:
BTW, I’ve been noticing at the Borgata penetration is terrible - cutting off 2+ decks and not just targeting me. They seem to be doing this as a general rule. They have two lines on the side of the shoe to indicate where the dealer should be cutting (between the lines). If they cut between the lines, they would be cutting 1-1.5 decks. They have been instructed to go way beyond both lines. All the dealers are doing it.
Abject stupidity. They do this all over, shuffle more frequently, and just waste time, with no chance at winning patrons' money. They protect against a few counters at the expense of hundreds who would lose faster if only the morons would let them. There is no limit to the painful ignorance of casino management. To qualify for the job, you have to show proof of a recent lobotomy.

Don
 
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