According to Stanford Wong on bet variation and counting and BS!! Wow!

[BJLFS]

Something like this has probably been posted before but I can't find anything on it so I just thought to ......... uh .......... post it anyways.

Using a $26.54 flat bet:

Using just Basic Strategy your win rate is -$15. So you lose $15/hr.

Using a flat bet and varying only the count your win rate is -$14. So you lose $14/hr. (No real difference between that and using just BS.)

Varying your bets with the count and using basic strategy your win rate is $12. So you win $12/hr.

Therefore it is more important to vary your bets than it is to count.

I can't find the info for counting and bet spreading. I'll try to dig it up.

 

[HockeXpert]

Using a flat bet and varying only the count your win rate is -$14. So you lose $14/hr. (No real difference between that and using just BS.)

I think something is missing here but I get your drift. You are (Wong is) saying that straying from BS or using index plays with the count only improves your (dis)advantage slightly and that most of your advantage comes from varying your bets with the count.

That is common knowledge to all the pros here and to further the thought, index plays improve your advantage slightly with higher level counts than hi-lo as the playing efficiency of each count improves. I am pretty sure Wong was refering to hi-lo in the example you quoted.

This is key knowledge for all prospective AP's and hope that all note Wong's observations!!!

 

[BJLFS]

I think something is missing here but I get your drift. You are (Wong is) saying that straying from BS or using index plays with the count only improves your (dis)advantage slightly and that most of your advantage comes from varying your bets with the count.

Yes he is. I was shocked to find that out too.

That is common knowledge to all the pros here and to further the thought, index plays improve your advantage slightly with higher level counts than hi-lo as the playing efficiency of each count improves. I am pretty sure Wong was refering to hi-lo in the example you quoted.

Yes he was referring to Hi-Lo. That's right it could have been Halves. I'll remember that.

This is key knowledge for all prospective AP's and hope that all note Wong's observations!!!

Hope it helps.

I'm a returning guy to blackjack BTW.

 

[picasso]

I agree with Wong.

 

[BJgenius007]

I concur.

Something like this has probably been posted before but I can't find anything on it so I just thought to ......... uh .......... post it anyways.

Using a $26.54 flat bet:

Using just Basic Strategy your win rate is -$15. So you lose $15/hr.

Using a flat bet and varying only the count your win rate is -$14. So you lose $14/hr. (No real difference between that and using just BS.)

Varying your bets with the count and using basic strategy your win rate is $12. So you win $12/hr.

Therefore it is more important to vary your bets than it is to count.

I can't find the info for counting and bet spreading. I'll try to dig it up.

This is exactly the first thing I read about Blackjack: spread + Basic Strategy is a winner but flat bet + index play is not. The former cuts your winnings by half but you still a winner! And it is a great way for beginners to build confidence and bank roll. I think it is the best thing I learned before I ever went to the casino. Many of you may read that I started my BJ career by winning the first 17 trips. You may not know for the first few trips I simply play perfect Basic Strategy but I spread one to eight units based on the true count.

Many books have mentioned this but I think the authors should emphasize it more because it is one single most important thing about Blackjack. Thanks for reminding people this!

 

[moo321]

However, the flat-betting using indexes doesn't include the gain you have from making index plays with a massive bet out, i.e. splitting tens or doubling 8 vs. 5.

Those plays aren't worth much with a 1 unit bet, but with a 10 or 30 unit bet, they are.

 

[Jack_Black]

This is exactly the first thing I read about Blackjack: spread + Basic Strategy is a winner but flat bet + index play is not.

Lest we forget the "ancient" art of Depth charging from Sensei Arnold Snyder. flat betting with a high playing efficiency count (hi opt 2) in a SD game will yield a +EV result.

 

[blackjack avenger]

General Statements

The more decks the more BE matters over PE.
The bigger the spread the more BE matters over PE.
The reason PE is oftern preferred over BE in SD or perhaps DD is because one is concerned about heat for using a big spread. I would think a high BE would still be superior even in SD if allowed to bet to the count.

The fewer decks one plays and the more timid they are regarding betting to the count PE starts to gain in value, but I think as a general statement, look for counts with high BE unless you are going to specialize in good SD. Good luck finding those games and be able to play a lot.
:joker::whip:

 

[QFIT]

Lest we forget the "ancient" art of Depth charging from Sensei Arnold Snyder. flat betting with a high playing efficiency count (hi opt 2) in a SD game will yield a +EV result.

Although Depth Charging doesn't bet according to the count, it isn't flat-betting. The bets increase as depth increases. Unfortunately, it is also requires a time machine.

 

[Jack_Black]

Although Depth Charging doesn't bet according to the count, it isn't flat-betting. The bets increase as depth increases. Unfortunately, it is also requires a time machine.

Details Shmetails!:laugh: The idea is that PE and flat betting can make a possible +ev situation.

OK, I will take out the "depth charging" term and just say flat betting SD with hi opt 2 full indices and seeing all hands at the table before making a decision will yield a winning game.

 

[Jack_Black]

The more decks the more BE matters over PE.
The bigger the spread the more BE matters over PE.
The reason PE is oftern preferred over BE in SD or perhaps DD is because one is concerned about heat for using a big spread. I would think a high BE would still be superior even in SD if allowed to bet to the count.

The fewer decks one plays and the more timid they are regarding betting to the count PE starts to gain in value, but I think as a general statement, look for counts with high BE unless you are going to specialize in good SD. Good luck finding those games and be able to play a lot.
:joker::whip:

hilo full indices vs hi opt1 asc full indices show very little difference at high spreads, with hi opt 1 slightly beating out hilo on a SD game. BE is important in a shoe game because of the fact that you will be sitting in neg. counts much longer than you would SD or DD, so you will need a better BE or bigger spread to catch up for the losses you incurred while playing through the neg. counts.

Hence the general rules of thumb for 1-4 spread on SD and 1-12 on 6D. Although, I disagree with that rule and say Wong in and out as if your life depended on it.

PS, I played with my ploppy friend last night who plays avg. 5 hands in BJ then takes off to the craps table to make a hopping bet. Loses, then comes back to the bj table for another 5 hands. too bad he doesn't know anything about proper play.