Ametur question

#1
My friend and I had an argument about this particular question " Does bad player have and effect on the your Ev?" Their argument is "the bad player is taking all the dealers bust cards." My viewpoint is that bad players don't have have an effect on your ev. Who is right and is there any mathematical proof?
Thank you in advanced
 

somtum

Well-Known Member
#2
AdvantagePlayer said:
My friend and I had an argument about this particular question " Does bad player have and effect on the your Ev?" Their argument is "the bad player is taking all the dealers bust cards." My viewpoint is that bad players don't have have an effect on your ev. Who is right and is there any mathematical proof?
Thank you in advanced

This is the biggest blackjack myth of all... A bad player doesn't affect your EV anymore than a good player..



In Google search type... blackjack myth bad players
 

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#3
If you think about it, anyone could be "taking the bust cards" for the dealer. We all have our own methods, which make us hit at odd times once and awhile. It's just like if someone didn't know basic strat. It is all just part of the game. Dealer's cards are whatever they get because of how people play out their hands. But it does suck when the facecard goes to the old crazy lady on the end that has a 17 and she thought she needed to hit. :laugh:
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#10
StandardDeviant said:
It's not about the money; the great thing about this game is what it teaches us about ourselves. (I keep telling myself that.)
Very True. I think the psychological component is vastly under appreciated. It's also probably one of the hardest elements to master.
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#11
daddybo said:
Very True. I think the psychological component is vastly under appreciated. It's also probably one of the hardest elements to master.
And...it's like riding a bicycle. You can't read about it in a book. You have to experience it. AND...you have to fall off the bike a few times to really understand what you're doing.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
I once had a dealer explain to me how any other player at the table effects your EV.
His thinking- Two people at the table, you each get 50% of the blackjacks.
But with four people at the table, you only get 25% of the blackjacks.
You'll never read that in a book,eh?:devil:
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#13
A certain type of bad player

I certainly agree that the person the bad player hurts is himself and he will help or hurt us equally in the long run but there is a certain type of bad player who helps you in a negative count and hurts you in a positive count.

I just finished playing on a table with a guy who had split disease. This is a disease that effects ploppy's who believe in things like it is better to get two 16's vs a dealer Ace than hit their 12. When the count is high and this guy is busy eating cards by splitting things like 6,6 vs A, while it may not hurt your next hand it does have a very good chance of costing you a positive round or two. That hurts.
If you are playing thru a negative shoe and he starts this, then you are rooting him on, hoping he gets multiple splits and doubles and gets that cut card out sooner.

Overall though they might balance each other. Add in the guy who is allergic to busting. He will help prolong a positive shoe as a beneifit but also hurt you by prolonging a negative shoe.

ihate17
 

MartyAce

Well-Known Member
#14
When someone asks me this question I respond with this exact answer:

The amount of times a player makes the incorrect decision and it hurts you, is equal to the amount of times a player makes an incorrect decision and it helps you.

So if you understand that, you will realize it doesn't matter what happens.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
MartyAce said:
When someone asks me this question I respond with this exact answer:

The amount of times a player makes the incorrect decision and it hurts you, is equal to the amount of times a player makes an incorrect decision and it helps you.

So if you understand that, you will realize it doesn't matter what happens.
Yet it seems that the plays that help you are always when you have a minimum bet out,no?
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#16
shadroch said:
I once had a dealer explain to me how any other player at the table effects your EV.
His thinking- Two people at the table, you each get 50% of the blackjacks.
But with four people at the table, you only get 25% of the blackjacks.
You'll never read that in a book,eh?:devil:
This is why I never listen to dealers...there's something not quite right about this. First, what matters is the number of BJs per unit of time, and that number will be greater for heads up play by a factor of 2 to 3 times.

Then we have to think about the long run. (I get all excited when I think about the long run. :eek:)

In the long run, the dealer is, in effect, dealing out of an infinite shoe. Everyone sitting at the table sees, in effect, an infinite shoe. Since the number of cards in an infinite shoe is, well, infinite, it doesn't matter how many players are at the table. There could be, I dare say, an infinite number of players at the table, and each would all see the infinite shoe.

The dealer is right that, out of a finite shoe, we'd be sharing the BJs, but as we approach the long run, our results approach the results from an infinite shoe, i.e., where the number of players don't matter.
 

EmeraldCityBJ

Well-Known Member
#18
AdvantagePlayer said:
My friend and I had an argument about this particular question " Does bad player have and effect on the your Ev?" Their argument is "the bad player is taking all the dealers bust cards." My viewpoint is that bad players don't have have an effect on your ev. Who is right and is there any mathematical proof?
Thank you in advanced
A bad player does have an adverse effect on your EV, although it's not usually because of their playing decisions. Their presence and the simple fact they are playing hands will slow down your game. This means fewer hands per hour for you, reducing your hourly win rate. Of course, a good player can slow your game down in the same way.

The only time playing decisions are a factor is when they hit/split more often in high counts or stand more often in low counts. This effect is insignificant compared to the game speed issue.
 
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