Anonymity vs. Comps
- Thread starter Nina
- Start date
Comps- an important part of this nutritious breakfast
When you get a "tracking card" for purposes of getting comps are you not ASKING for the casino to keep an eye on your play?
Yes, but you may choose not to give them your card every time you play. Some are of the opinion that it looks more suspicious to the pit for you to play without getting rated. I sometimes "forget", but I am more likely to turn in my card to be rated during a losing session. Just remember, they don't need your name to back you off.
At what point is it beneficial to play for comps as opposed to just trying to play under the radar?
To clarify, you should not be "playing for comps", you are just taking them as a bonus, part of your overall advantage play. Play the best game possible and take whatever comps you can, as much as you can, as often as you can.
I'm playing in the $25 - $100 range. What would be right for me?
You certainly should be taking advantage of comps. Ask for them both at the table and talk to a casino host. Find out what level of play is required to get rooms, meals, and gift shop comps where you play. You may be bashful to ask at first, but doing so will make you seem more like a typical gambler and less like the stereotypical card counting robot. Also, video poker is a great addition to your AP skill set, and VP play alone has been known to generate some nice coupon and cashback offers in the mail. There are a couple of books you might want to check out on comps: Comp City by Max Rubin, and The Frugal Gambler by Jean Scott.
Sentry
When you get a "tracking card" for purposes of getting comps are you not ASKING for the casino to keep an eye on your play?
Yes, but you may choose not to give them your card every time you play. Some are of the opinion that it looks more suspicious to the pit for you to play without getting rated. I sometimes "forget", but I am more likely to turn in my card to be rated during a losing session. Just remember, they don't need your name to back you off.
At what point is it beneficial to play for comps as opposed to just trying to play under the radar?
To clarify, you should not be "playing for comps", you are just taking them as a bonus, part of your overall advantage play. Play the best game possible and take whatever comps you can, as much as you can, as often as you can.
I'm playing in the $25 - $100 range. What would be right for me?
You certainly should be taking advantage of comps. Ask for them both at the table and talk to a casino host. Find out what level of play is required to get rooms, meals, and gift shop comps where you play. You may be bashful to ask at first, but doing so will make you seem more like a typical gambler and less like the stereotypical card counting robot. Also, video poker is a great addition to your AP skill set, and VP play alone has been known to generate some nice coupon and cashback offers in the mail. There are a couple of books you might want to check out on comps: Comp City by Max Rubin, and The Frugal Gambler by Jean Scott.
Sentry
Agreed 100%
As a shoe player, comps work out to be about 20% of my EV. They cover my cover play, transportation and other costs of doing business.
The only time I don't use them if I am on a trip far away where I'm not planning on being back or using my comps on the trip. This does decrease from the value of such games. However if I am on a trip it is usually to play SD or DD which has a higher value that more than makes up for the lack of comps.
VP is another thing I do, for cover and to alleviate boredom on long trips. But casinos know that VP can be played for positive EV, and apparently a lot of places don't rate it like they do slots. I'm sure they also know that most card counters know about and can play VP. So a little time at a slot or a craps table might be beneficial too. I like to buy in at craps or roulettte to make it harder for the BJ pit to track my wins and losses.
As a shoe player, comps work out to be about 20% of my EV. They cover my cover play, transportation and other costs of doing business.
The only time I don't use them if I am on a trip far away where I'm not planning on being back or using my comps on the trip. This does decrease from the value of such games. However if I am on a trip it is usually to play SD or DD which has a higher value that more than makes up for the lack of comps.
VP is another thing I do, for cover and to alleviate boredom on long trips. But casinos know that VP can be played for positive EV, and apparently a lot of places don't rate it like they do slots. I'm sure they also know that most card counters know about and can play VP. So a little time at a slot or a craps table might be beneficial too. I like to buy in at craps or roulettte to make it harder for the BJ pit to track my wins and losses.
a comp matter
I have been going anonymous at many houses that I play in until I get around to getting some fake id for camo and comp purposes. At some places where I know that it is safe I give my real name but I am trying to phase that out. It seems that not having a card in some places brings more attention than I am comfortable with. I dont ususally care that much about the things that comps buy.
A couple of interesting things came up in an exchange i had with a pit person about using an Id that I had not considered.
I had lost track of exactly how much I had bought in for at the table that I was playing at so I asked the pit person if he could tell me. He said he could not. I asked him if he knew. He said he did but just could not tell me. At this point I thought about all those times that I heard pit people use the euphomism "would you like to be rated ?" or "can we rate your play for you ?" It was obvious from his response that it was not for me that the rating was being done. I asked him why and he answered that it violated the state's laws regarding financial disclosures. Those are the law's that govern what a casino has to disclose to the federal government about a players' activities. Like when someone buys in for over $10,000 in a one day period. The rationale apparently is that if they tell a player what his buy in was it may be used to circumvent the law.
Then it occured to me if I was using a fake ID to get a casino comp card and the casino used the information on that card to give misinformation to whoever exactly it that they have to report to (IRS ?) Could I inadvertently be using a fake Id to give fraudualent information in a legally required report and so violate a some federal law ??
anybody know ?
I have been going anonymous at many houses that I play in until I get around to getting some fake id for camo and comp purposes. At some places where I know that it is safe I give my real name but I am trying to phase that out. It seems that not having a card in some places brings more attention than I am comfortable with. I dont ususally care that much about the things that comps buy.
A couple of interesting things came up in an exchange i had with a pit person about using an Id that I had not considered.
I had lost track of exactly how much I had bought in for at the table that I was playing at so I asked the pit person if he could tell me. He said he could not. I asked him if he knew. He said he did but just could not tell me. At this point I thought about all those times that I heard pit people use the euphomism "would you like to be rated ?" or "can we rate your play for you ?" It was obvious from his response that it was not for me that the rating was being done. I asked him why and he answered that it violated the state's laws regarding financial disclosures. Those are the law's that govern what a casino has to disclose to the federal government about a players' activities. Like when someone buys in for over $10,000 in a one day period. The rationale apparently is that if they tell a player what his buy in was it may be used to circumvent the law.
Then it occured to me if I was using a fake ID to get a casino comp card and the casino used the information on that card to give misinformation to whoever exactly it that they have to report to (IRS ?) Could I inadvertently be using a fake Id to give fraudualent information in a legally required report and so violate a some federal law ??
anybody know ?
Tax
No, you are not signing any reports so you are OK. If however you do fill out the required forms for a larger than $10K transaction with a false name you could get in trouble. The simple solution: keep everything under $10K per day! True, a black chip player could easily have more than that to cash in but a black chip player is going to be sticking around town for a while so there's no reason he can't cash it in $9K at a time.
Note that this does not have anything to do with your obligation to report gambling profits to the IRS. And no, the IRS is not going to accept that what we do isn't gambling, any more than non-counters do. The last thing you ever want to give any casino is your Social Security number.
By the way, the reason he wouldn't tell you what you bought in for has nothing to do with the IRS. Casinos know that CG's kid themselves over how much money they have lost and they only remember the wins, and they want to encourage this situation, so they don't remind people.
No, you are not signing any reports so you are OK. If however you do fill out the required forms for a larger than $10K transaction with a false name you could get in trouble. The simple solution: keep everything under $10K per day! True, a black chip player could easily have more than that to cash in but a black chip player is going to be sticking around town for a while so there's no reason he can't cash it in $9K at a time.
Note that this does not have anything to do with your obligation to report gambling profits to the IRS. And no, the IRS is not going to accept that what we do isn't gambling, any more than non-counters do. The last thing you ever want to give any casino is your Social Security number.
By the way, the reason he wouldn't tell you what you bought in for has nothing to do with the IRS. Casinos know that CG's kid themselves over how much money they have lost and they only remember the wins, and they want to encourage this situation, so they don't remind people.
Don't take this advice.
>The simple solution: keep everything under $10K per day! True, a black chip player could easily have more than that to cash in but a black chip player is going to be sticking around town for a while so there's no reason he can't cash it in $9K at a time.
This is called "structuring" and is illegal.
>The simple solution: keep everything under $10K per day! True, a black chip player could easily have more than that to cash in but a black chip player is going to be sticking around town for a while so there's no reason he can't cash it in $9K at a time.
This is called "structuring" and is illegal.
Comps vs EV
I agree that comps should be viewed as a perk (and not a necessity of playing). Having said that - I think that the quarte player will benefit quite a bit from comps; a $100 max will fly under the radar of most places and you will be struggling to cover trip expenses without comps at this level. So ask away and dont be shy; also remember that if the first host or whoever says no; ask another. Alot of times there is leeway to be gathered.
The comps are less important IMO for red chippers and black chippers. Basically the red chipper would be better off to focus on coupon abuse whereas the black chipper's ev is usually strong enough to cover most expenses and show a decent profit to boot.
I usually ask for (and BS I suppose) for all comps that dont require a hotel stay. Rooms are usually comped in adance via mailers and I rarely (if ever) play where I stay. I use alot of corporate travel points and prefer to stay for free at a marriott than any hotel casino which also helps defray trip expenses.
wong out
I agree that comps should be viewed as a perk (and not a necessity of playing). Having said that - I think that the quarte player will benefit quite a bit from comps; a $100 max will fly under the radar of most places and you will be struggling to cover trip expenses without comps at this level. So ask away and dont be shy; also remember that if the first host or whoever says no; ask another. Alot of times there is leeway to be gathered.
The comps are less important IMO for red chippers and black chippers. Basically the red chipper would be better off to focus on coupon abuse whereas the black chipper's ev is usually strong enough to cover most expenses and show a decent profit to boot.
I usually ask for (and BS I suppose) for all comps that dont require a hotel stay. Rooms are usually comped in adance via mailers and I rarely (if ever) play where I stay. I use alot of corporate travel points and prefer to stay for free at a marriott than any hotel casino which also helps defray trip expenses.
wong out