Any HI-LO experts out there? Few ?s....

[hardNock]

Hello all, I am new to the board and have been lurking around for about a week. I am so glad to have found this valuable asset and have already learned a ton about this wonderful game called Blackjack...

I've been dedicating myself to learning the Hi-Lo system for the past month and a half. I've done all the drills, ran simulations, read many posts online, bought both CV Blackjack and CVData (both I HIGHLY recommend to anyone who is serious about counting)... but alas I still have a few unanswered questions...

I am lucky enough to have many casinos near me all of which offer DD games (one is a single deck but above my bankroll limit min:100)...

Here are the ones that I have been playing

Store1: DD DAS H17 No Surrender 55% penetration
Store2: DD DAS H17 Late Surrender 55% penetration
Store3: DD DAS H17 Late Surrender 60-75% penetration
ALL GAMES: Double any two, Resplit Aces, Resplit up to 4 hands...

I am currently using the Hi-Lo system and am currently trying to fine and plug any leaks I have to the DD games I am playing.. the simulations have helped quite a bit.. BUT..

1) What is the correct insurance/even money index for these games?
2) Is DblDown on A7 vs 2 and A8 vs 6 correct in basic strat for these games?
3) What would you guys recommend for units (base unit $25) for a 1-12 bet spread. I chose 1-12 because I would like to average about $100/hr.

Thanks in advance for all your help!:grin:

 

[Sharky]

1.) +2.4
2.) yes, yes (see BS engine on left column)
3.) w/o simming, i suspect you are <$75/hr, raise unit to $35-$40 should put you closer to $100

 

[hardNock]

Thanks for the reply Sharkey..

I just got done running the sim for Hi-Lo Sweet Sixteen + Fab Four with the following:

TC : <=0 1 2 3 4 5 >=6
Units: 1 1 2 4 6 8 12

and the results (with 70% penetration using Hi-Lo Swt16 F4) are about $110/hr.
For the other two games.. I suspect much lower due to penetration (maybe $80-90?).. I'll run the sims and see with lower penetration...

Thanks for confirmation on the indices i requested..

 

[blackjackomaha]

1-12 might be too aggressive for a DD game, even in some of the most tolerant places. You don't need to lower your spread, but you run the risk of burning the game out prematurely.

With good pen, a 1-8 spread would be sufficiently profitable while drawing less attention.

If you can get away with a 1-12 and you don't care about longevity at a particular store, then by all means, fire away. Be wary of heat though...

 

[HockeXpert]

1-12 might be too aggressive for a DD game, even in some of the most tolerant places. You don't need to lower your spread, but you run the risk of burning the game out prematurely.

With good pen, a 1-8 spread would be sufficiently profitable while drawing less attention.

If you can get away with a 1-12 and you don't care about longevity at a particular store, then by all means, fire away. Be wary of heat though...

To add to the wise advise of blackjackomaha, you may want to lower the spread to 1-8 AND do some wong outs when the count goes <-2. You could visit the restroom frequently (weak bladder) or receive a lot of important phone calls. Of course this doesn't work heads up so you could try asking for a shuffle after losing a few hands in a row. In either case, don't wear out your welcome or you might as well just spread 1-12.

 

[hardNock]

Yea... I've been wondering if I've been getting heat from the pits or not.. last night I put down two three hundred dollar bets two seperate hands... the pitboss was sweating the action.. it might have been a bit agressive... I just subscribed to BJnews and they say that most of the casinos I frequent have facial rec systems I guess that means they are pretty serious about counters..

I think I will goto a 1-8 spread... what should I use for the TC to bet ratios? what TC should I be spreading my max at? I'm shooting for $80-100 winrate/hr...

Also .. should I consider learning Hi-Opt II? or ZEN? I've read that these counts are better for DD.. which is what I primarily play. Will the effort be for a minimal gain? I've spent a TON of time in the last month dedicating to Hi-Lo.. but would be willing to change if the gains in performance were substantial..

 

[blackjackomaha]

Zen is my choice.

 

[duanedibley]

If DD is going to be your main game then I would definitely invest in a better count than Hi-Lo. Unbalanced Zen is very easy to use, especially given there is no true count division, yet it is significantly more powerful than Hi-Lo for double deck.

I play DD very rarely and I use a very simple UBZ with all indices rounded to the nearest 4, which still beats Hi-Lo by a decent margin.

 

[hardNock]

Zen seems like the way to go... Which books / websites should I use to get more info on the UBZ and can I just use the indices in CVDATA?

 

[duanedibley]

Check out the UBZ sticky first.

If you want to get indices from CVDATA, I would run an index generation with the specifics of your game rather that just using the pre-entered ones.

I'll attach the indices I use, but again these are very simplified and some may even be wrong since I rarely play this game, and I didn't put a lot of time into this.