Anybody have any thoughts on Jay Moore's "Delayed and Up" betting strategy?

M

Mr_Bill

Member
I've tried it for a few hundred hands on the simulator and it seems to work OK.

Starting at $10 a hand, I'm averaging about $100 dollars an hour profit, but I don't know that I can maintain this over the long term.

If you can recommend a better one, please do so.

Thanks!

Mr. Bill
 
Mr_Bill said:
I've tried it for a few hundred hands on the simulator and it seems to work OK.

Starting at $10 a hand, I'm averaging about $100 dollars an hour profit, but I don't know that I can maintain this over the long term.

If you can recommend a better one, please do so.

Thanks!

Mr. Bill
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I can recommend you a better betting strategy, counting cards! If you're looking for a better system that doesn't involve counting, it's called playing for free money. :)
 
Mr_Bill said:
I've tried it for a few hundred hands on the simulator and it seems to work OK.

Starting at $10 a hand, I'm averaging about $100 dollars an hour profit, but I don't know that I can maintain this over the long term.

If you can recommend a better one, please do so.

Thanks!

Mr. Bill
Click to expand...
i tryed to look info up on the internet about Jay Moore and was unable to find anything.
please tell us about more about this "delayed and up betting strategy".

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
It is from his book "Most Powerful Blackjack Manual" Here is the Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...ef=sr_1_1/104-0688744-5780735?ie=UTF8&s=books

Basically, the betting sequence is $10, $10, $10, $15, $20, $30 and then you start over. You quit if you lose four hand in a row or if you lose four out of five hands. There are a couple of other rules for quitting, but I don't remember what they are. I was looking at the book at Borders and don't have it in front of me. I'll see if I can get the full set of rules for you. But, even without playing 100% correctly, I was still doing OK over the short term. This is of course playing with play money on the simulator.

As far as card counting, I'm trying to learn, but I worry about pitbosses and getting the backroom treatment. If I could learn a winning non-counting strategy, that would be ideal. I'm in this for the long-term.

Thanks for all your help!!!

Mr. Bill
 
the guys other books are about cooking, golf, and building your own games.What does that tell you ? Tells me he is trying to build up his bankroll.Why do I get the feeling that he might know the seller of the infamous cipher BJ system?
 
Mr_Bill said:
It is from his book "Most Powerful Blackjack Manual" Here is the Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...ef=sr_1_1/104-0688744-5780735?ie=UTF8&s=books

Basically, the betting sequence is $10, $10, $10, $15, $20, $30 and then you start over. You quit if you lose four hand in a row or if you lose four out of five hands. There are a couple of other rules for quitting, but I don't remember what they are. I was looking at the book at Borders and don't have it in front of me. I'll see if I can get the full set of rules for you. But, even without playing 100% correctly, I was still doing OK over the short term. This is of course playing with play money on the simulator.

As far as card counting, I'm trying to learn, but I worry about pitbosses and getting the backroom treatment. If I could learn a winning non-counting strategy, that would be ideal. I'm in this for the long-term.

Thanks for all your help!!!

Mr. Bill
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sorry it just looks like some kind of progression betting and that simply wont work in the long-term.
your best bet if your in it for the long-term is to learn card counting. the odds are you'll love it.
there are ways of dealing with the pit critters also. thats a great bit of the fun of it all.

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
I'm using a progressive system from the book "Progressive Blackjack" by Donald Dahl. I will give you his $5 progression

5,5,7,7,10,10,15,15,25,25,35,35,50,50....

The idea is that after you win the first bet you never go negative. If you win the first two and then lose the third you are up $3. After you lose you go back to 5. The idea is that if you go on a losing streak you are losing the minimum, but when youare wining it gets big.

I have had this book for some time and have just gotten up the courage to try on line. I'm still not convinced that it's legit, but I am giving it a try.

Just this morning I was playing a while and I got up to $75. I was up like $300 and I had an 11 to the dealers 6. I almost wet myself. I doubled down, I got an ace and he didn't bust. Oh well I still won about $125 for the session.

Other parts of the system are that you skip one level with a 3/2 blackjack and skip two with a double down or split. So if you are on the first 5 and get a bj, then go to the first 7, if you doubled down then you would go to the second 7.

To all you card counters, I know, I know, it's not as good as counting cards, but it is the best that I have found. If you get on a run the money piles up fast.
 
Everyone who tries a betting strategy will eventually find out that they don't work. I went through it years ago. I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm just giving you the info up front.
 
ScottH said:
Unfortunately useless betting strategies are getting a lot of attention lately...
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yeah and from what i've seen many of those betting strategies are more complex and difficult to apply than card counting. :rolleyes:

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
I'm sorry to say guys, that counting is the only proven method to long term winning. For 80 years, mathmaticians, scholars, sharks, pros, geniuses, and casual players have tried to find something else that works, and nothing else does. Why? No matter what bet scheme you use, you will lose 50.5 out of 100 bets (with the best set of rules), even more if you make mistakes, which most folks do.

So it doesn't matter if you bet $1, $2, $500, $100, you will only win 49.5% of the time or less. Remember, the difference that BJ has with roulette or craps is that the amount of cards left affect the outcome, and counting cards is the easiest way to know what cars are left.

Only other ways are advanced strategies (hole card, shuffle-track etc) which are too hard or impossible for average players and cheating, which will get your face rearranged and arrested.
 
ortango said:
I'm sorry to say guys, that counting is the only proven method to long term winning. For 80 years, mathmaticians, scholars, sharks, pros, geniuses, and casual players have tried to find something else that works, and nothing else does. Why? No matter what bet scheme you use, you will lose 50.5 out of 100 bets (with the best set of rules), even more if you make mistakes, which most folks do.

So it doesn't matter if you bet $1, $2, $500, $100, you will only win 49.5% of the time or less. Remember, the difference that BJ has with roulette or craps is that the amount of cards left affect the outcome, and counting cards is the easiest way to know what cars are left.

Only other ways are advanced strategies (hole card, shuffle-track etc) which are too hard or impossible for average players and cheating, which will get your face rearranged and arrested.
Click to expand...

I agree, over time you will only win about 49.5% of the hands you play. If you bet the same amount I understand that you will lose. If I am using a betting strategy that takes advantage of my winning streaks by betting more and I only lose my minimum win losing then it seems to make sense that I should be able to gain an advantage, but I can't quantify it, yet.

I know you AP's are rolling your eyes, mumbling, "newbie", but I haven't seen the numbers, just a bunch of people saying it doesn't work, but showing no proof.
 
jbhall said:
I agree, over time you will only win about 49.5% of the hands you play. If you bet the same amount I understand that you will lose. If I am using a betting strategy that takes advantage of my winning streaks by betting more and I only lose my minimum win losing then it seems to make sense that I should be able to gain an advantage, but I can't quantify it, yet.

I know you AP's are rolling your eyes, mumbling, "newbie", but I haven't seen the numbers, just a bunch of people saying it doesn't work, but showing no proof.
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There has been proof posted here many times. Believe me, this is a topic that has attracted a lot of attention on the forum here. The magic number is not the number of hands won versus hands lost. It is that little number called "house edge." On a normal 6-deck game where the dealer hits soft 17's, that number comes out to something like -.64%. That means that the house (casino) is going to take .64% of the TOTAL amount that you wager if you play long enough to let the probabilities even things out. There is no getting around it without knowing when to put those larger bets out.
 
jbhall said:
I agree, over time you will only win about 49.5% of the hands you play. If you bet the same amount I understand that you will lose. If I am using a betting strategy that takes advantage of my winning streaks by betting more and I only lose my minimum win losing then it seems to make sense that I should be able to gain an advantage, but I can't quantify it, yet.

I know you AP's are rolling your eyes, mumbling, "newbie", but I haven't seen the numbers, just a bunch of people saying it doesn't work, but showing no proof.
Click to expand...

jbhall what you are saying is exactly correct. now tell us how are you going to know when your winning streak is going to occur?
what this site will tell you is the way you determine when your winning streak is likely to ocurr is by counting cards and or shuffle tracking. there are no other known ways to make that admittedly inexact prediction.
or tell us do you know of a way?:cool2: if all you do is leave it up to a betting progression you are simply leaving it up to chance.

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
Mr_Bill said:
As far as card counting, I'm trying to learn, but I worry about pitbosses and getting the backroom treatment.
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Don't worry about that. I've been playing for almost 7 years and I have never been barred, 86ed or backroomed. As long as you're paying attention and playing responsibly you won't have to worry. And even if you do get barred, just go to another casino. It's not a big deal.

Mr_Bill said:
If I could learn a winning non-counting strategy, that would be ideal. I'm in this for the long-term.
Click to expand...

In that case you will need to look at alternative strategies like front loading, sequencing, ace cutting, etc. These techniques are incredibly difficult and often not practical in many casinos. You are better off spending a little time learning how to count if you want to win.

-Sonny-
 
 
What these progressions do it let you win a little slowly, before you loose alot quickly. Most of them also ride on the fact that a string of twenty losses is so rare it will be ages because someone encounters it and realises that string of looses nullified thousands and thousands of previous hands of winning.

5,5,7,7,10,10,15,15,25,25,35,35,50,50

It is easy to see with this system that it does work:
win win win = +17
win win loose = +3
win loose win = +5
win loose loose = -5
loose alternatives are = -5 * 4 = -20

all up you are -25 and +25 = 0. So it doesnt make money if you stop after 3 bets.

Notice that if you never stop until you loose, you HAVE to loose money in the long run. Because you can see the string of wins is what evens out the balalnce. If you keep going until you loose a hand, you cannot possibly even out the balanace.
 
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