Anyone interested in Training a Team? + Questions

#1
Well, heres the deal...I'm 20 (don't know what I have my profile saying) and 21 in January. I know 2 more people who would dedicate lots of time to this once they see the math and its a proven fact.

I'm realizing that your skills as a perfect CC and BS player are almost irrelevant now compared to how important deck penetration and your ability to count/play under the "pressure" are in todays casinos because of how tough the casinos are making it for us CCers...especially if your in it for the LONG LONG haul like I am.

No matter how much I practice and become better, I can't shake the feeling that there is EVEN more to the game than what I already mentioned, the I18, sizing your bets, shuffle tracking and a good amount of common sense to make decisions at times...I mean is that really all there is to this?

That last question leads me to this question...Anyone interested in training a team of players (In Los Angeles) to play for them? I can't help shake this feeling that all the books out there tell you a lot to get you miles ahead of most, but not enough to play at the level the authors of these books do (not talking money wise). Not to mention...the training feels very dated.

If no one is interested, maybe you wont mind answering a ton of questions:

What are optimal playing conditions (including game rules, number of players, decks, etc)?

What conditions should be avoided completely (same)?

What are the most common playing conditions available today (same)?

Besides Basic Strategy (intentional errors included), the I18, Shuffle Tracking, Card Counting, optimal betting, distractions, and DEALING WITH HEAT, what else must a Card counter absolutely learn in order to be successful?

How do you constantly win again and again, yet keep the casinos welcoming you back thinking your a bad player (that must be what they are thinking, thanks to your strategies, to keep welcoming you back)?

What strategies do you use when dealing with heat at casinos (example: BS errors)?

How do YOU generally act when your at a table?

Whats your way of acting like you aren't counting cards and how long can you/do you usually act this way without losing the count?

How long to you continue to play after you've gotten a comp?

How do you bet before/after comps?

Is sitting at "3rd base" a give away these days?

What is considered to be optimal/good deck penetration for 6/8 deck games?

How is deck penetration these days?

As you can see, I'm dead serious folks and have many more questions that I'll ask over time, but for now, at the very least, I would love some form of up to date types of training and UP-TO-DATE WAYS OF THINKING in prep for today's casinos and strict conditions.
 
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#2
damn ! im waiting patiently for people to answer those questions too!!

I was wonderin also if there are some teams now (in 2008) that just goes to las vegas and just wins and wins again.. is there teams that are really bringin the house down as we speak??

im very curious about this
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
LiveBJ said:
Well, heres the deal...I'm 20 (don't know what I have my profile saying) and 21 in January. I know 2 more people who would dedicate lots of time to this once they see the math and its a proven fact.

I'm realizing that your skills as a perfect CC and BS player are almost irrelevant now compared to how important deck penetration and your ability to count/play under the "pressure" are in todays casinos because of how tough the casinos are making it for us CCers...especially if your in it for the LONG LONG haul like I am.

No matter how much I practice and become better, I can't shake the feeling that there is EVEN more to the game than what I already mentioned, the I18, sizing your bets, shuffle tracking and a good amount of common sense to make decisions at times...I mean is that really all there is to this?

That last question leads me to this question...Anyone interested in training a team of players (In Los Angeles) to play for them? I can't help shake this feeling that all the books out there tell you a lot to get you miles ahead of most, but not enough to play at the level the authors of these books do (not talking money wise). Not to mention...the training feels very dated.

If no one is interested, maybe you wont mind answering a ton of questions:

What are optimal playing conditions (including game rules, number of players, decks, etc)?

NO EASY ANSWER TO THIS

What conditions should be avoided completely (same)

BJ THAT PAYS 6/5

What are the most common playing conditions available today (same)?

DEPENDS WHERE YOU PLAY

Besides Basic Strategy (intentional errors included), the I18, Shuffle Tracking, Card Counting, optimal betting, distractions, and DEALING WITH HEAT, what else must a Card counter absolutely learn in order to be successful?

TO BE LUCKY?????

How do you constantly win again and again, yet keep the casinos welcoming you back thinking your a bad player (that must be what they are thinking, thanks to your strategies, to keep welcoming you back)?

VERY SHORT SESSIONS SPREAD OUT OVER TIME. PLAY DIFFERENT SHIFTS AND DIFFERENT DAYS

What strategies do you use when dealing with heat at casinos (example: BS errors)?

N/A

How do YOU generally act when your at a table?

PATERNALISTIC,HELPFUL,FRIENDLY

Whats your way of acting like you aren't counting cards and how long can you/do you usually act this way without losing the count?
CONVERSATION

How long to you continue to play after you've gotten a comp?

ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER



How do you bet before/after comps?

SEE ABOVE ANSWER

Is sitting at "3rd base" a give away these days?

I DON"T SIT AT THIRD. I"M A FIRST BASER.

What is considered to be optimal/good deck penetration for 6/8 deck games?

80% OR BETTER

How is deck penetration these days?

WHERE?

As you can see, I'm dead serious folks and have many more questions that I'll ask over time, but for now, at the very least, I would love some form of up to date types of training and UP-TO-DATE WAYS OF THINKING in prep for today's casinos and strict conditions.[/QUOTE
 
#5
shadroch said:
LiveBJ said:
What are optimal playing conditions (including game rules, number of players, decks, etc)?

NO EASY ANSWER TO THIS


Well for anyone interested, I'm looking for that complex answer anyone feels like giving.

What conditions should be avoided completely (same)

BJ THAT PAYS 6/5

There has to be others.

What are the most common playing conditions available today (same)?

DEPENDS WHERE YOU PLAY

Well, obviously. But where YOU play, what conditions do you run into? You can also just sum it up to vegas, reno and anywhere else in nevada/cali that has casino clusters.


Besides Basic Strategy (intentional errors included), the I18, Shuffle Tracking, Card Counting, optimal betting, distractions, and DEALING WITH HEAT, what else must a Card counter absolutely learn in order to be successful?

TO BE LUCKY?????

So then thats all there is to it?

How do you constantly win again and again, yet keep the casinos welcoming you back thinking your a bad player (that must be what they are thinking, thanks to your strategies, to keep welcoming you back)?

VERY SHORT SESSIONS SPREAD OUT OVER TIME. PLAY DIFFERENT SHIFTS AND DIFFERENT DAYS

Then how do you get the comps? What do you consider a very short session?



How do YOU generally act when your at a table?

PATERNALISTIC,HELPFUL,FRIENDLY

Whats your way of acting like you aren't counting cards and how long can you/do you usually act this way without losing the count?
CONVERSATION

How long do you typically have to hold a conversation at a table?

How long to you continue to play after you've gotten a comp?

ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER

Well I figure that they must be watching you if they are giving you comps...somethings got to change.



How do you bet before/after comps?

SEE ABOVE ANSWER

So you just keep winning if your winning and don't attract heat by doing so:confused: ?


What is considered to be optimal/good deck penetration for 6/8 deck games?

80% OR BETTER

What is the cut off point...non playable penetration?

How is deck penetration these days?

Vegsa, Reno and anywhere in cali/nevada where casino clusters exist

.[/QUOTE
Anyone wanting to give long, drawn out answers...please do :)
 
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#8
shadroch said:
Your welcome.
Yeah thanks for the half-assed answers...some weren't even good enough to be called half asses.

You could've finished answering or said you didn't feel like going into greater detail instead of almost answering some questions, not answering some and leaving way to much to speculate for the ones you did answer. Then, you decide to post some smart ass "Your Welcome" post as if you did something...please.

If your going to help, help...maybe you would've gotten a thank you.
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#10
Sensitivity?

EasyRhino said:
Aw crap, now you made Shadroch cry.
Aw, c'mon Easy, don't be so thick-skinned (pun inserted). Can't you be nice to the kid?

LiveBJ- The answers Shadrock gave you may have seemed curt, but the questions you asked him were well out of the scope of being answered in one thread. You posed an entire card counting career in one nice neat sequence of questions. It would be like asking cardiologist how to become the best in the field over lunch, without first going through med school, residency, internship and years of practice. You have to take it one step at a time. There's no shortcuts.
The questions that he didn't answer, he couldn't, not without more specific information, e.g "what a the most common playing conditions?".
You must specify the area-Vegas? Reno? Atlantic City? These all differ dramatically as do the laws of each state etc.
So I would suggest you just first start to read through the threads on this forum and many of your questions will be answered. The remainder we will be more than happy to help you with.
 
#11
EasyRhino said:
Aw crap, now you made Shadroch cry.
Damn...now I'm tearin up.

bj bob said:
LiveBJ- The answers Shadrock gave you may have seemed curt, but the questions you asked him were well out of the scope of being answered in one thread. You posed an entire card counting career in one nice neat sequence of questions. It would be like asking cardiologist how to become the best in the field over lunch, without first going through med school, residency, internship and years of practice. You have to take it one step at a time. There's no shortcuts.
Yea exactly, that was the idea, and I was trying to figure out what those steps are...trying to better prepare myself for what would be "med school". Also, plenty of people have these questions...why not answer them here?

bj bob said:
The questions that he didn't answer, he couldn't, not without more specific information, e.g "what a the most common playing conditions?".
You must specify the area-Vegas? Reno? Atlantic City? These all differ dramatically as do the laws of each state etc.
Thats why I responded in RED to be a bit more specific, and planned to get more specific as the thread went on, but I guess...

bj bob said:
So I would suggest you just first start to read through the threads on this forum and many of your questions will be answered.
Guess I'll have to... No short-cuts eh?


bj bob said:
The remainder we will be more than happy to help you with.
Thanks dude.
 

la_dee_daa

Well-Known Member
#12
LiveBJ;73785 If no one is interested said:
What are optimal playing conditions (including game rules, number of players, decks, etc)?[/B]

the ones with the lowest house edge? i would say are that point.. you want less players at the table the better. Maybe a place where the pit bosses wouldn't realize you were counting if you wore a name tag that had AP on it?:laugh:

What conditions should be avoided completely (same)?

crowded tables and bad house rules

What are the most common playing conditions available today (same)?

doesn't matter what they are today it matters what they will be when you hit the casino's

Besides Basic Strategy (intentional errors included), the I18, Shuffle Tracking, Card Counting, optimal betting, distractions, and DEALING WITH HEAT, what else must a Card counter absolutely learn in order to be successful?

how to make money at a real job/business if all else fails.

How do you constantly win again and again, yet keep the casinos welcoming you back thinking your a bad player (that must be what they are thinking, thanks to your strategies, to keep welcoming you back)?

You would have to lose:laugh:

What strategies do you use when dealing with heat at casinos (example: BS errors)?

i cool their hot hearts with a cool island song

How do YOU generally act when your at a table?

i act friendly, pleasent, i give a little of that discouraged tone acting like i chase losses when i want to start placing larger bets

Whats your way of acting like you aren't counting cards and how long can you/do you usually act this way without losing the count?

conversation mostly about the "flow" of the cards.

How long to you continue to play after you've gotten a comp?

they don't give me comps :(

How do you bet before/after comps?

i dont get comps:(

Is sitting at "3rd base" a give away these days?

hopefully they will introduce round tables so this problem wont occur.

i wouldn't know i sit next to friendly people and away from grumpy people or who smell like old cheese.

What is considered to be optimal/good deck penetration for 6/8 deck games?

80%-110% more if you can find it

How is deck penetration these days?

well if you will be playing in about a year it's going to be different

As you can see, I'm dead serious folks and have many more questions that I'll ask over time, but for now, at the very least, I would love some form of up to date types of training and UP-TO-DATE WAYS OF THINKING in prep for today's casinos and strict conditions.
You need more specific questions.

taking acting classes can never hurt.

people i know still don't think its a "proven fact" they think its my theory :laugh: Yes thats right i came up with the theory of card counting, im the guy :laugh:


My opinion on the future of team play in card counting.


smaller low stakes teams will fade in and out making a little money maybe. From a $$ stand point only really makes sence for a recreation purpose with a little extra money. As soon as you move up from there there will be more heat you might make some good extra money but would probably be a short run thing. Most of these teams i assume are going to be fairly small. If a team would really want to make money it would have to be at a level that has never been seen before and have to stay ahead of the casinos in all manners.

The real question is what are your intentions in card counting /team stuff?
 

RenoRenagade

Well-Known Member
#13
I think you need more training partners now in days.

Like I can get my hands on a blackjack table and put it in my garage and I can get 6 people and we can simulate a actual game and practice just about anything .

And I would do this I live in Reno obviously , if you are interested let me know.
 

vonQuux

Well-Known Member
#14
LiveBJ said:
If your going to help, help...maybe you would've gotten a thank you.
For a person who is seeking help, you're going about it in an awful strange way.

Can't speak for anyone else but if I was in a position to help, I wouldn't bother after that post...

vQ
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
vonQuux said:
For a person who is seeking help, you're going about it in an awful strange way.

Can't speak for anyone else but if I was in a position to help, I wouldn't bother after that post...

vQ
Feel free to speak for me. I don't mind helping newcomers,but getting slammed because I don't feel like listing the playing conditions in the several hundred casinos he can't play in anyway isn't the way to win the hearts and minds of prospective tutors.
Am I reading this right? He wants us to teach him AND finance his play?
If I have the knowledge,and I have the money,what do I need him for,again?
 

vonQuux

Well-Known Member
#18
shadroch said:
Feel free to speak for me. I don't mind helping newcomers,but getting slammed because I don't feel like listing the playing conditions in the several hundred casinos he can't play in anyway isn't the way to win the hearts and minds of prospective tutors.
Am I reading this right? He wants us to teach him AND finance his play?
If I have the knowledge,and I have the money,what do I need him for,again?
Lessee... He creates an account, posts an application-questionnaire like he's a subcontractor in a border town, insults the regulars and walks around like he's Semyon Dukach, Ed Thorp and Ken Uston all rolled into one.

Yeah, that'll work.

I wouldn't be on this guy's team if he could hypnotize a pit boss into believing he's a rooster, blind surveillance with his mind and shoot aces out of his browneye.

Jesus H. Christ on a greased-up pogo stick...

vQ
 
#19
I have half the forum crying.:laugh: Am I the only one who finds that funny?

I never realized people would be so sensitive on here:joker: . I asked all the questions most people want answers to...so what I didn't write them out so that a 1st grader would know everything I wanted answers to...anyone (especially the "regulars" on this site) with a little common sense could/should/would easily assume that some idiot (give or take) newb is asking questions about a subject he really obviously doesn't understand, and say to yourself "let me help him out" or "what a numb nut, someones gotta help him...", and give a response like " rules vary from casino to casino, but at the places I usually play (specify here) I usually see ____" get it? Is that really that damn hard? But instead some would rather act nice, act like a prick and then act like a pansy later. If you don't feel like helpin, don't, but you don't have to act smart about it if you decide to.

Somehow I'm made out to be the bad guy because some "regular"(I really love that because it's like I'm supposed to bow down before the all mighty regulars on a FORUM) with groupies on this site has a messed up attitude and way of helping people and I said something:eek:

Anyway, I'm going to go sulk now cuz nobody will be on a team with me.

Thanks ppl who helped.
 
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