Attack of the Ploppies

Preston

Well-Known Member
#1
I'm just curious if anybody else has run into this situation:

I'm playing at a $5 table.. 6 decks. TC has climbed to +12. My bet raises accordingly. I'm in the seat next to third base. I am dealt 15. Dealer has an 8. I stand. BS player to my left hits, draws a 10 on his 14 to bust him. Dealer flips over an 8, and then a 10 to bust him out.

Ploppy on third base gets mad and starts to threaten to take me outside.

Or another time...

I'm in a "No Mid-Shoe Entry" game.

The count has sunk to -15. I'm dealt a 12 against a dealer 6, I hit and catch a 7. Dealer flips over a 7 and then draws a 4 to get 17. Ploppy gets mad 'cuz I hit against a "Bust card" (whatever that is) when in reality I saved the dealer from getting 20.

Again, I get the "I can't play with this asshole" comment among other things..

I seems to me that since I've started counting and following a system, I am getting more "heat" from the other players at the table than from the pit.

Anybody else experience this?
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#3
It's ironic that the ploppy first gives you grief from deviating from basic strategy, when it ended up benefiting him, and then later gives you grief for following basic strategy.

I think the only logical recourse would have been to split tens, then double down both of them for one dollar.
 

tedloc

Well-Known Member
#5
Hey...

Preston said:
I'm just curious if anybody else has run into this situation:
I seems to me that since I've started counting and following a system, I am getting more "heat" from the other players at the table than from the pit.

Anybody else experience this?
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Seriously, you will get heat if you play BS and certainlly you will get it if you count. You will get heat if you play incorrectly and you will get heat no matter what you do. Remember that 90% of all BJ players are dopes. They wouldn't know a good play if the saw it. What you need is 'thick skin' and a comeback line. I now use one, someone posted on this site. Next time you get someone at the table that makes a comment about your play tell them. "Hey, I'm sorry I screwed up your hand. Why don't you give me some of your money and I'll play some hands for you and you can make the calls".
 
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ortango

Well-Known Member
#7
This is why I recommend a healthy dose of weight lifting to all APs! Though I am not huge, I am not a guy that people want to give grief or an offer to "take it outside" Think about it.. majority of gamblers being supersitious guys losing all of their hard earned money. They will be pissed no matter HOW you play, if it doesn't help them.
 
#8
ortango said:
This is why I recommend a healthy dose of weight lifting to all APs! Though I am not huge, I am not a guy that people want to give grief or an offer to "take it outside" Think about it.. majority of gamblers being supersitious guys losing all of their hard earned money. They will be pissed no matter HOW you play, if it doesn't help them.
Yes I know what you mean, guys usually don't offer to fight me, unless they are too drunk to know the difference.

The last guy who wanted to fistfight I met in a bar. He staggered up to me, swastika tattoo on his hand (this usually means an ex-con on an white guy) and asked if I wanted to go outside and fight. I told him "No, I just want to drink." He was a bit surprised, and went staggering around the bar asking other guys if they wanted to help him fight me. They all told him to get lost. Eventually the bartender made him sit down.

A few rough guys I've encountered at the BJ table, but casino security is pretty good in most of the US, to the point where it's the last place you want to do something illegal. One time I accidentally broke something in a casino and totally forgot about it, until 4 hours later when a security guard presented me with a bill. Although one time at Foxwoods there was a fight in the poker room and security didn't get involved until the state troopers showed up. So it's hit and miss; I wouldn't worry too much about rude ploppies but on the other hand don't take for granted nothing is going to happen to you because of heavy casino security.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#9
It's the nature of the beast called blackjack

As said before, play perfect basic strategy, play as a complete ploppy or be a counter, odds are that if you spend any time on blackjack tables you will be blamed for not knowing the exact order of the cards yet to be dealt. Blamed when you do something perfectly right that works out unfortunately, blamed when you improve your loser into a winner but in someone elses opinion, you caused him to lose. In certain age groups, guys will get invited to the parking lot but I have also seen one guy just stand up and slug the guy sitting next to him.

You do not want these idiots sharing your cards anyway, so if it results in their leaving the table great.

Enough years ago at a small Indian Casino with a good shoe game, I split my 9's vs a dealer 8 while at third base, a very simple basic strategy play. I get an ace and then a paint improving both of my hands. The dealer turns a 3 for 11, pulls a 6 for 17 and the idiot to my rigtht who stayed on 15 vs 8 (in a +1 count) goes nuts. Guy is more than 30 years younger than me and tells me if I was younger he would teach me to play blackjack in the parking lot. Dealer, amazingly tells him that I made the right play and he made the wrong one, to which he tells the dealer that he is an idiot and that he would have busted with those two cards just as the dealer would have. Finally, he tells me and the dealer what to do with ourselves and leaves but does not go far. He stands 10 feet from the table, eyeballing the two of us as the other players leave. I tell the dealer that perhaps he should inform the pit (who was trying his absolute best to ignore everything). We continue playing heads up and the count goes up and I am winning most of the hands and what is that idiot doing? He was making sure that he warned every person who approached the table that they did not want to play with a horrible player like me. Hell, I would have payed him to do that, I got in two shoes (one great one) heads up in a fairly crowded casino with this guy chasing away other players for me. It lasted till the dealer got nervous and forced the pit to call security. Later the pit boss came to me and apologized for the casino and asked if he could do anything for me. Told him I was planning on leaving soon but would like a nice dinner and a security escort to my car because I was worried that this guy might wait for me and I had won a nice bit of money. The bad part of this was though they kind of like me still today at this casino (handling the situation without disturbing their players) I am to well known there.

Cat Fight at the XYZ casino

My niece is sitting at first base, I am watching and there is a perfect basic strategy playing lady at third base. This lady is nasty. She has insulted every basic strategy mistake made by other players. She insults the dealer when she loses, she has complained to the pit about a couple of dealers and complained to the pit boss about the pit. She is losing a lot of money but is probably the hot topic in the break room.
The count is seriously negative but it was near the shuffle(long time ago and I do not remember some the exact details) but my niece gets a 9, ms basic strategy has I think an 18, the dealer showed a 3 and the rest of the table did not hit. Because of the negative count my niece does not double her nine but hits instead. She gets a 2 and then a 9 for 20. The dealer turns 13 and hits a 6 for 19 beating everyone on the table except for my niece and third base explodes. "If you would have doubled your 9 as you know you should have the dealer would have busted etc etc etc etc." It does not stop and after the dealer asks her to quiet down, she now has a few choice words for the dealer. Finally my niece gets a few choice words in, "give me your chips!" To which third base answers exactly, "what did you say bitch?" Very calmly, my niece says, "if you want me to play your way I certainly will, but only with your money, so give me your chips or shut up!) Pit who was approaching the table hears this and turns around laughing, dealer puts his head down to hide his smile and the guy sitting next to my niece says to her, "I wish I had said that" Ms personality storms away.
Word of warning here: Had the same thing happened with two guys the odds of them landing up throwing punches would be extremely high.

ihate17
 

avs21

Well-Known Member
#10
Just out of curiosity how big are the guys wanting to fight people? I play a lot of face down games, so people usuallly don't pay attention to my hands.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#11
Here it is in "reverse." Last night, I'm playing a 6-D game. The count sucked. I needed to get away from the table, but didn't want to draw a lot of attention from the pit and since I play at this casino a lot, saw an opportunity to "up" my camo.

A guy sitting next to me gets up and leaves a couple of hands after a guy on first base split 10's. A new guy sits down and on the first hand he plays, splits 10's. I didn't say much...just "Oh My God!" I pushed my chips in and told the dealer to color me up. I said nothing else, but there was no doubt in the minds of the dealer and the PC as to exactly what I was doing.

The PB later left the pit and came over to where I was back counting and appologized all over the place to me about the crap going down on the table I'd left. Served me in good stead. You can use those ploppie attitudes to more advantages than you might think on the surface!
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#12
Mikeaber said:
Here it is in "reverse." Last night, I'm playing a 6-D game. The count sucked. I needed to get away from the table, but didn't want to draw a lot of attention from the pit and since I play at this casino a lot, saw an opportunity to "up" my camo.

A guy sitting next to me gets up and leaves a couple of hands after a guy on first base split 10's. A new guy sits down and on the first hand he plays, splits 10's. I didn't say much...just "Oh My God!" I pushed my chips in and told the dealer to color me up. I said nothing else, but there was no doubt in the minds of the dealer and the PC as to exactly what I was doing.

The PB later left the pit and came over to where I was back counting and appologized all over the place to me about the crap going down on the table I'd left. Served me in good stead. You can use those ploppie attitudes to more advantages than you might think on the surface!
Once you do say that you won't be able to split your own tens when the count warrents it. Well, you still can, but then you would look bad for making fun of that other guy. But I assume you never split tens, right?
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#13
Split your tens but not in your own house.

ScottH said:
Once you do say that you won't be able to split your own tens when the count warrents it. Well, you still can, but then you would look bad for making fun of that other guy. But I assume you never split tens, right?
If you have found a casino where you can count, backcount, wong out, and win and they tolerate or like you, do not split your tens there. That is your home, that is the casino where, at least for now, you can return over and over again. It does not last forever, a change in personel, a look at your lifetime win/loss (become an excellent rat holer) or something else and it will end one day.
For now, if you split tens you will get more attention to your play, but just as important you might be the guy who chases one of their big losers off a table and casinos do not like that.

Now when you go to a place where you will not return for a period of time, play them as hard as you can, try to make all you can because you do not need longevity and should give nothing up to get it. Often I make the split of tens a play on my last shoe in the house. Remember even if you do not do things like split tens, they may toss you anyway.

ihate17
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#14
ScottH said:
Once you do say that you won't be able to split your own tens when the count warrents it. Well, you still can, but then you would look bad for making fun of that other guy. But I assume you never split tens, right?
That's right Scott, I play it pretty much under the radar at this casino simply because it is where I play (outside of Vegas) most of the time. About the only "strange" plays I make other than ramping my bets, is to take insurance and even money when the count is right.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#15
I had my first serious voodoo-ploppy today. About 8:30AM at an indian casino. I'm chillin at the $10 table (in third base) with about 3 other players. Middle age asian-guy rolls in and gets about two grand in black chips. And starts betting a 200-600 bucks a hand, sometimes in two spots. It caught our attention but we played normally. He pretty quickly starts doing the whole "well, if I had stood then the bust card would have moved onto the dealer..." thing that everyone falls victim to, but I thought it was harmless. But he started losing a few hands, and got a little bossier.

What startled and amused me when he was trying to work out a way to time-travel and win the hand, and it was a pretty tough situation, all of the obvious moves would have still resulted in a lost. Finally he looks at me and says "You should have split".

"I had a matching pair?" I said, racking my memory.

"Yes, you had two tens"

"... the dealer was showing a nine."

Anyway, he stormed off pretty quickly, and we made fun of him at the table for about an hour afterwards. Good times.
 
#16
Real bad one last night

I was playing at a full table and the count started going way up real early. So even though the count didn't call for it, I split 10's vs. a 5 to clear the table so I could spread to a spot next to me.

There were two whales playing the table, an older Asian woman and a big black guy in gang colors. Both of them lost their hand (as did I) and they would not have lost if I hadn't split. Both of them started giving me this really hateful talk; the woman accused me of stealing $500 from her (due to her losing the hand) and the gang-banger gets threatening "One more time man, I don't care if I go to jail..." etc.

The ploy worked; a neighbor left the table in disgust and I spread to that spot, and the count promptly went up to a max bet. I started winning big, and to taunt the people who were harassing me I stacked up my chips in a big tall pile, to contrast their dwindling stacks.

Now here's where discipline comes in- I got two 10's vs. a 6 again. The gangster is glaring at me and I wanted to split so bad, while whistling "Dixie"!:whip: I would have probably won the fight. But... the count was just a little short of where it was supposed to be for that play, I was already playing two hands, so I couldn't justify doing it just to make people mad. (And as an advantage player, I'm not allowed to take any solace from the fact that I would have lost had I done so.) I finished the shoe and got the hell out of there with a nice win.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#17
Ploppies you love.

I just came back from a most memorable trip to ploppy land. The casino I gamble at has alot of buses full of them during the weekday. I have a tons of stories that would fill a book and then some.I was sitting at a red chip table and two guys, one on either side of me were playing pretty far fetched calls on their hands they were getting. I don't let ploppies bother too much normally unless I'm getting my arse kicked by their really bad play time after time. I geuss one of the dummies thought that the other dummy was dumber than him and doubled a hard 16 against a dealer 6 and the other guy just went over the edge.He jumped up enraged threatening to kick this guys ass.I just pushed back off the table trying to stifle my laugh and told this two numb skulls that the tribal council doesn't meet until wensday to decide what to do with fighters in it's casino. Thankfully one idiot left even before the hand was done. By the way the guy pulled a 5 and the dealer busted anyway. Blackchipjim:laugh:
 

NDN21

Well-Known Member
#18
Attack

Is it possible that this is a ploy to get the dealer's and floorperson's attention away from something?

That is this guy could be just saying that in order to distract the dealer from someone who is hole-carding.

Or this guy could be trying to distract the dealer and make the dealer more susceptible to showing his hole-card.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#20
I got narc'd on by a ploppy today. And it turned into a pretty well-timed punchline:

Late sunday morning, at half-full $5 table, I'm at third-base, and guy sitting next to me (shortstop?) is playing two hands and being generally talkative about everything, giving dealer and pit grief. Gave me grief about the football team on my t-shirt, just generally dishing it out, but in a fairly good-natured manner.

Midway through the shoe, the count spikes, I lay a nine-chip bet, and catch a blackjack. Guy immediately looks at my bet and says "See that?! He's from Texas and he's cheating! He even cut the shoe!<chuckles>". (I had cut the shoe, but ace steering is far beyond me) It wasn't taken seriously by the table, and I yuck it up with the rest of the table, telling the guy that I'll "throw a little of the cheating his way".

Few hands later, I have a slightly elevated, but not max bet out. Guy draws to twenty on a stiff.

Me: "Who's cheating now?!"

< dealer proceeds to deal me an ace for my double-down ten >

Dealer: "You are!"

The timing really couldn't have been better.
 
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