Backing up the cards on dealer misdeals

[Joeb21]

Here are my interesting tales from this weekend:

Playing at my favorite spot on early Saturday morning. I was playing one on one with the dealer.
I get 8 and 3 vs delaer 5. I put my chips down to double and wait for the hit. The dealer is not paying attention and skips and turns over his 4. He then turns over my 10 on his hand. I say to him I doubled and he looks and calls over the pit boss. He says they can't back up the cards so I can either take my bet back or play the hand and try to beat 19. I say no thanks take my chips and leave the table out of principle.

Playing again on Sunday I get a pair of deuces against a 3. I split the deuces and get a 10 on the first. I point to hit the 12 and the dealer puts my 8 on the other 2. I tell him I was hitting the 12. He calls over the pit and they move the 8 to my twelve. This time they back up the cards. I end up getting a double on the second deuce and win all 3 hands.

Interesting how they wouldn’t back up my 10 on Saturday but back up my 8 on Sunday.

Joeb21

 

[HockeXpert]

Couple of questions

Indian joint? I vote yes.

Same pc as day before? I vote no. Probably either stupid, lazy or greedy pc in the first case. Probably all three.

 

[moo321]

Most places will not back up a card for you...

On the other hand, if someone misdeals, you probably shouldn't say a word, because you can usually back out of the hand, or choose to stick it out.

Say that ten busted the dealer. Well, now you can say "Sure, I'll take the next card for my double!"

 

[The Chaperone]

They aren't supposed to back up the cards, but I have convinced them to do it a couple times when it's in my favor.

You should have played the 11 vs. 19, but not doubled (obv). Or better yet, you should have convinced them to burn the face card that went to the wrong spot and then doubled your 8,3 vs. 5,4.

 

[paddywhack]

I've had them back up cards before from one player to another but never once it gets to the dealer. Sometimes they'll just burn it. YMMV even between shifts in the same joint, just depends on the pit.

Once I was sitting at 3rd base, signaled for a hit on a 12 vs a 2 and the dealer flew past me and flipped the hole card and hit his hand with my nine pulling 21. I protested that I signaled for a hit, check the tape if you want. Pit said I could go ahead and hit my hand but the dealer's hand will not be changed. So I hit my 12, got a 6, and hit again to bust. Really sucked, I'd have had the 21 and the dealer would have had an 18.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I've had them back up cards before from one player to another but never once it gets to the dealer. Sometimes they'll just burn it. YMMV even between shifts in the same joint, just depends on the pit.

Once I was sitting at 3rd base, signaled for a hit on a 12 vs a 2 and the dealer flew past me and flipped the hole card and hit his hand with my nine pulling 21. I protested that I signaled for a hit, check the tape if you want. Pit said I could go ahead and hit my hand but the dealer's hand will not be changed. So I hit my 12, got a 6, and hit again to bust. Really sucked, I'd have had the 21 and the dealer would have had an 18.

Wow you really got screwed. Every place I play would let you pull your bet back in such a scenario. And they are all Indian casinos.

 

[moo321]

I've had them back up cards before from one player to another but never once it gets to the dealer. Sometimes they'll just burn it. YMMV even between shifts in the same joint, just depends on the pit.

Once I was sitting at 3rd base, signaled for a hit on a 12 vs a 2 and the dealer flew past me and flipped the hole card and hit his hand with my nine pulling 21. I protested that I signaled for a hit, check the tape if you want. Pit said I could go ahead and hit my hand but the dealer's hand will not be changed. So I hit my 12, got a 6, and hit again to bust. Really sucked, I'd have had the 21 and the dealer would have had an 18.

I would've seriously considered taking my bet out of the circle in this scenario.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

At Harrah's Chester, if anything out of the ordinary happens, the pit boss will let players back out of the hand. Even if a card falls out of the discard tray by mistake, the hand will be optional. One time a ploppy on first base wanted to split tens against an ace but the dealer passed over him and gave the next card to second base, which was a 5. He complained, we all acknowledged that he wanted to split, and the pit boss allowed him to split his face cards and anyone else to back out of the hand. Of course, everyone else backed out, the 5 was burned and he split his tens to get 2 stiffs, he stayed and the dealer busted. Another time, the dealer showed an ace and forgot to ask for insurance before flipping his face card in the hole. The pit boss was standing right next to the table and told us that the dealer never asked for insurance, and so we had a second chance at insurance. Of course everyone took the insurance.

 

[moo321]

If you like shooting angles, and you have a dealer that doesn't offer insurance properly, just get the chips in your hand and bring them over the line as she is checking.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

If you like shooting angles, and you have a dealer that doesn't offer insurance properly, just get the chips in your hand and bring them over the line as she is checking.

This is much easier to do if you're playing at a store that uses a hole card reader with a red/green light.

 

[ihate17]

Burn it, back it up, give players options

I've had them back up cards before from one player to another but never once it gets to the dealer. Sometimes they'll just burn it. YMMV even between shifts in the same joint, just depends on the pit.

Once I was sitting at 3rd base, signaled for a hit on a 12 vs a 2 and the dealer flew past me and flipped the hole card and hit his hand with my nine pulling 21. I protested that I signaled for a hit, check the tape if you want. Pit said I could go ahead and hit my hand but the dealer's hand will not be changed. So I hit my 12, got a 6, and hit again to bust. Really sucked, I'd have had the 21 and the dealer would have had an 18.

Any house that will blatently take advantage of an obvious dealer error, as in your example, is not only using it as a form of cheating but is extremely stupid and of course greedy.

There is no way that dealer should have been allowed to keep that nine and houses that do not have extreme contempt (just normal contempt) for their players would never allow the dealer to keep that card without letting all the players take their bets back. The card should be burned or backed up, if they do not have a rule against backing up, but no matter what is done, players should be given at least the option of playing or not playing.
Part of the problem might be how much authority is given to the pit to make decisions in this case but no matter what the procedure, a dealer error should never result in an unfair advantage to the house.

Can you imagine a pit who would let the dealer keep his 21 in this case but if the dealer would have busted, either gives the player missed the card or burns it? In 2001 or2002, I witnessed this at an Indian joint and even though I was not playing at the time, and the pits decisions amazed me, I was more amazed that every player took their pockets being picked without uttering a word.
I noted the table number, dealers and pits name and the time and wrote a letter to the general manager of the casino (did not know who table game manager was) and got a phone call from him a week later. He actually reviewed the tape, and agreed with me and said things would be different in the future. At this particular casino since that time, they do the following on such errors: They do not back up cards but will burn a wrong card that helps a dealer and give every player the option of backing out of the hand.