backlining strategy?

[JimmyFortune]

When playing at my local casino yesterday, I noticed something interesting. I had been playing for a while, when one of the other players at the table decided to backline me. I was dealt two eights against a dealer nine. playing BS I decided to split my hand, and the player backlining me decided not to go along, effectively now only playing one hand 8 vs. 9. This occured to me as a very wise thing for him to do: 8 vs 9 isn't exactly a big winner and by not going along with my split he minimized his anticipated loss. Has anyone ever noticed this? And with which hands would you not go along with the split?

regards,

Jimmy

 

[shogun]

Always split 88. It's not a winning move versus a dealer 9, but it serves to minimize your losses. You will lose more money hitting or standing on 88 v. 9 than if you split.

 

[ScottH]

Always split 88. It's not a winning move versus a dealer 9, but it serves to minimize your losses. You will lose more money hitting or standing on 88 v. 9 than if you split.

You DONT want to add money for the split in that situation if you are backlinging. If you backline a player and they split, the backlining player can decline adding more money and only play one of the hands. It's a good move since they will get the benefit of splitting but without having to pay more money in the bad situation.

 

[zengrifter]

You DONT want to add money for the split in that situation if you are backlinging. If you backline a player and they split, the backlining player can decline adding more money and only play one of the hands. It's a good move since they will get the benefit of splitting but without having to pay more money in the bad situation.

The big bet backliner who can effectively only play half of the bad-split hand, in this case an eight, has a big advantage. I think that the house made a mistake and that this cannot be done! zg

 

[ScottH]

And with which hands would you not go along with the split?

In general dont go along with the "defensive splits" such as 88 vs 9-A. But you would go along with "offensive" splits such as 99 vs 6 or AA vs anything.

 

[dacium]

This is why I always backline in Australia. I just count the cards, while not even playing, and backbet people playing basic stategy correctly. I never go with splits unless they are profitable ones.

Very few people realise which ones are profitable, even 77 against 3 isn't werth a backliner splitting.

 

[ScottH]

Very few people realise which ones are profitable, even 77 against 3 isn't werth a backliner splitting.

Is there a backliner's BS?

 

[zengrifter]

This is why I always backline in Australia. I just count the cards, while not even playing, and backbet people playing basic stategy correctly. I never go with splits unless they are profitable ones.

You can do this??? This makes BS profitable!! You guys are pulling my leg!! zg

 

[ScottH]

You can do this??? This makes BS profitable!! You guys are pulling my leg!! zg

The thing is they cant make you put in extra money for the split, so you can selectively do it in positive situations.

What would the EV be just playing BS while backlining?, assuming that you dont have to pay for the split if you dont want to.

 

[jihan3]

You can do this??? This makes BS profitable!! You guys are pulling my leg!! zg

Are typical Australian rules blackjack pretty poor??

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The thing is they cant make you put in extra money for the split, so you can selectively do it in positive situations.

What would the EV be just playing BS while backlining?, assuming that you dont have to pay for the split if you dont want to.

From what I've heard it adds about 0.15% to the player's edge, in a DAS game.

The real power as I see it is that it reduces the amount of money a BP has to lay on the table to get an even greater advantage. Kind of like the surrender rule. It can also make the BP look like he doesn't know basic strategy.

 

[JimmyFortune]

In general dont go along with the "defensive splits" such as 88 vs 9-A. But you would go along with "offensive" splits such as 99 vs 6 or AA vs anything.

Thanks for the response; this puts backlining in a whole new perspective..!

But who can tell me which splits exactly are defensive (minimizing anticipated loss) and which are offensive (maximizing anticipated gain) ?
The examples Scott gave are rather obvious, but what about 8-8 vs. 2 etc. ..?

 

[SystemsTrader]

Thanks for the response; this puts backlining in a whole new perspective..!

But who can tell me which splits exactly are defensive (minimizing anticipated loss) and which are offensive (maximizing anticipated gain) ?
The examples Scott gave are rather obvious, but what about 8-8 vs. 2 etc. ..?

Jimmy go buy Don Schlesinger's "Blackjack Attack". You should find all those answers in there.

 

[Sonny]

But who can tell me which splits exactly are defensive (minimizing anticipated loss) and which are offensive (maximizing anticipated gain) ?

Here is a complete list:

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/ev.htm (Archive copy)

Look for plays with a positive EV. Just make sure that your overall EV for splitting is higher than your EV for any other play. Just because splitting tens against a 2 has a +EV doesn't make it a good idea.

-Sonny-

 

[Sonny]

Is there a backliner's BS?

There's a complete "Rider BS" in Wong's Basic Blackjack. This article also has a few pointers:

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Archive/GameMasterSecerts/RiderBets.shtml (Archive copy)

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

There's a complete "Rider BS" in Wong's Basic Blackjack. This article also has a few pointers:

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Archive/GameMasterSecerts/RiderBets.shtml (Archive copy)

-Sonny-

gamemaster's school is great but for some reason that link isn't working correctly and the site is difficult to navigate.....maybe they are just having some temporary problems. i would have liked to seen the Rider BS but haven't been able to find it yet.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[KenSmith]

You're right. There's a lot of good content at GameMaster, but finding it is almost impossible. Direct links to content don't work, because they get rerouted to the home page. I pointed that out to their web development guy a long time ago, but they never changed it.

 

[ScottH]

I agree the GameMaster is good info. It was the very first card counting info I found, and I thought it was good. Shortly after I found this site, which is even better. For optimal results, use them both!

 

[QFIT]

The linking is a bit odd in the Gamemaster. I copied all the screens into CVBJ (with permission of course) so it can be navigated quickly from your local disk.

 

[jee_pack]

to all those whom are interested in reading the article:

click on TOOLS / INTERNET OPTIONS

then go the the SECURITY thing at the top of the pop-up,
then go down and click on CUSTOM LEVEL

then scroll down untill you see SCRIPTING (it may be all the way at the bottom).

The in the little circles under SCRIPTING, change it from ENABLED to DISABLED. Then click OK, and answer YES or OK to anything else untill your back on the web page...

NOW CLICK ON THE LINK and VOILA! You can then copy paste the article on a texte file...

Make sure you re-enable the SCRIPTING after or else no web site will work properly...